Thoughts On Cutting Keenan Allen?

[blueman]

I'm also finding your repulsion to what I'm saying to be completely odd. Did you not write this last year?

There are two problems most of the best passing offenses have.

1). They can move the ball like crazy, but at some point, they need to impose their will on the other team. Taking what the other team gives you (us) is a fine concept until you realize that to some degree you are doing what the other team's wants you to do. If you want to be a championship team, you have to impose your will on the other team.

2). Toughness. Passing offense takes a lot of repetition to get really good at. Lots of individual patterns, lots of 7 on 7, playing against air. Then when you go to play against bodies, not only are the D (and OL) techniques bad because they don't get the reps in practice, you don't get the teamwork either. Running the football is tough because it only takes 1 mistake to blow up a play. You have to dominate the other team or it doesn't get you a lot of yards. But at some point, if you want/need that 1 yard at the goal line or on 4th down, you have to impose your will on the other team and get the tough yard.

https://www.thepowderblues.com/forum/forum/los-angeles-chargers-forum-nfl-forum-padres-forum/the-los-angeles-chargers-forum/1315413-herbert-vs-his-peers/page23

Running the ball is sometimes about trying to keep the pass rush in check. Only morons think it is a good idea to let the pass rushers get into their sprinter's stance, explode upfield and get after the QB.

It also is handy to wear down the pass rushers, and tire their legs. Pass rushers only have so many good explosive snaps in them over the course of a game, and if they have to use them up playing the run, then those plays make it easier to protect the QB after the DL wears down.

https://www.thepowderblues.com/forum...s-peers/page25

Running still gives teams a chance to impose their will on the defense. At some point all this bullshit about taking what the defense gives you is playing the game they want you to play. No defense can stop everything, so they give you things that will hurt less and try to make some plays on their own.

And teams that don't try and run the ball and work at it never get better. It takes practice time, it takes game time and it takes patience.

In football, there is a hard end to the game. So, efficiency isn't the end all be all. Who cares if you are necessarily being efficient in the offensive or defensive or (ST) sense, it is the efficiency in the point differential, and even that is not that important. The ideal way to end a football game once you have a lead would be to average 3.4 yards per play and drive the ball down and score and eat up the clock while doing so. But none of your poorly thought-through assumptions factor in how to help the D. Keeping them off the field and the offense on is still the best way to protect a bad D and help a good or great D.

You are also dead wrong in your shared assumption with Tony Romo, which is pretty easily done, since Tony is not one of the world's great thinkers. You are ASSUMING that every time we throw that Herbert is a shot to make a 1st down. A lot of our 2nd (and some 3rd down) attempts are not throwing the ball for a 1st down. They are trying to set up a better down and distance for 3rd or 4th down. That is particularly true when we are behind schedule. Those passes aren't giving Herbert a chance. Running to keep on or ahead of schedule is a really, really good way to maintain the attack part of the passing offense. When you are ahead of schedule the WR are going downfield rather than asking our WR, who are NOT quick game specialists, to run route combinations that attack downfield.

https://www.thepowderblues.com/forum...s-peers/page26

Steve likes to flip-flop a lot, it’s his superpower.

Also there was a board member back in the day who made pulling something you posted two years ago that contradicted something you posted today into a zen-like art form, so infuriating. Plus he would never admit it when he did it, even when you showed him his old post, lol. Moral of this story, beware the posts of March (in December..or something).

[charger1_sj]

Not sure I buy it either, I mean if we’re a better running team and are getting more yards per run, won’t we be running less? Is the league stretching the field to 120 yards??

More yards per run sets up play action. So therefore a balanced approach works best. When we run into a brick wall the safeties and LBs are not worried about
the run and won't bite on play action. Makes passing the ball that much harder. See Lombardi's offense in 2022 if you have any questions.

[powderblueboy]

What do you mean by "preparing to run the football"?

It's no different than before, you just have to have better blocking and a better RB, some better play calling..
Ekelers YPC didn't suffer.

Everybody is learning a new offense this season so there won't be need for more prep to run the ball than there will be to throw it.

That's not a quote of anything I wrote.
Doesn't matter, it seems to fit my sentiment.

The Charger Olinemen are good enough: if you want to run the football well, you need repetitions in practice that will take away from preparing for other things.
They were inconsistent and not fully coordinated as a run blocking unit last year.

How many times on running plays did we see some Charger let a defender blow past him because the Charger had another assignment, but ended up blocking air?

Feed Bijan Robinson the football in the 4rth Q against Jacksonville last month, and he would have gained + 1 yards instead of - 1 yards.

[charger1_sj]

That's not a quote of anything I wrote.
Doesn't matter, it seems to fit my sentiment.

The Charger Olinemen are good enough: if you want to run the football well, you need repetitions in practice that will take away from preparing for other things.
They were inconsistent and not fully coordinated as a run blocking unit last year.

How many times on running plays did we see some Charger let a defender blow past him because the Charger had another assignment, but ended up blocking air?

Feed Bijan Robinson the football in the 4rth Q against Jacksonville last month, and he would have gained + 1 yards instead of - 1 yards.

True, but it has nothing to do with taking away prep from other things. We used a particular zone blocking scheme that our O line is not built for. Plus
with the exception of Eckler our other RBs are not built to take advantage of that type of scheme. Maybe Kelly, no other guys.

A look a the Eagles, Cowboys, Chiefs and many other teams that can pass and run efficiently shows that not only can it be done, but it's done without
inflicting pain on the passing game. It takes the right coaching and a understanding of what you got in your players abilities. We did have injuries on the
O line and that hurt consistency. I'm not talking about the one dimensional offense that the Titans have.

[gzubeck]

That's not a quote of anything I wrote.
Doesn't matter, it seems to fit my sentiment.

The Charger Olinemen are good enough: if you want to run the football well, you need repetitions in practice that will take away from preparing for other things.
They were inconsistent and not fully coordinated as a run blocking unit last year.

How many times on running plays did we see some Charger let a defender blow past him because the Charger had another assignment, but ended up blocking air?

Feed Bijan Robinson the football in the 4rth Q against Jacksonville last month, and he would have gained + 1 yards instead of - 1 yards.

Charger Blocker...my defender is not where he's supposed to be...LOL!

[charger1_sj]

Charger Blocker...my defender is not where he's supposed to be...LOL!

See there that's what I'm talking about. Good quote.

[Boltjolt]

That's not a quote of anything I wrote.
Doesn't matter, it seems to fit my sentiment.

The Charger Olinemen are good enough: if you want to run the football well, you need repetitions in practice that will take away from preparing for other things.
They were inconsistent and not fully coordinated as a run blocking unit last year.

How many times on running plays did we see some Charger let a defender blow past him because the Charger had another assignment, but ended up blocking air?

Feed Bijan Robinson the football in the 4rth Q against Jacksonville last month, and he would have gained + 1 yards instead of - 1 yards.

OL needs cohesiveness to play well as a unit.

And I'd say what you said about Bijan is unknown. He is 220 lbs and led college football by a wide margin in either broken tackles or yards after contact. Can't remember which. Want to say broken tackles.

[Steve]

That's not a quote of anything I wrote.
Doesn't matter, it seems to fit my sentiment.

The Charger Olinemen are good enough: if you want to run the football well, you need repetitions in practice that will take away from preparing for other things.
They were inconsistent and not fully coordinated as a run blocking unit last year.

How many times on running plays did we see some Charger let a defender blow past him because the Charger had another assignment, but ended up blocking air?

Feed Bijan Robinson the football in the 4rth Q against Jacksonville last month, and he would have gained + 1 yards instead of - 1 yards.

The OL didn't play well, but the TE were bad too.

Adding Robinson would really upgrade the running game. But is it the best use of our resources? We need help on DL, might need an OL. We need someone to block at TE, and another edge would not be out of place. Is it really a good use of a featured back to put him on what will probably be a passing team and then underutilize him? Guys like Robinson need 20 carries a game to be at their best, and I am not sure that is the best use of our offense.

If Feiler is a cap casualty, it is looking like some of the OT types might slip to around 20. Or if we go TE, then an OG in the 2nd/3rd?

The 2023 draft class doesn't seem to have as much speed as some, but Jaylin Hyatt might be hard to pass if available.

[Steve]

I'm also finding your repulsion to what I'm saying to be completely odd. Did you not write this last year?

There are two problems most of the best passing offenses have.

1). They can move the ball like crazy, but at some point, they need to impose their will on the other team. Taking what the other team gives you (us) is a fine concept until you realize that to some degree you are doing what the other team's wants you to do. If you want to be a championship team, you have to impose your will on the other team.

2). Toughness. Passing offense takes a lot of repetition to get really good at. Lots of individual patterns, lots of 7 on 7, playing against air. Then when you go to play against bodies, not only are the D (and OL) techniques bad because they don't get the reps in practice, you don't get the teamwork either. Running the football is tough because it only takes 1 mistake to blow up a play. You have to dominate the other team or it doesn't get you a lot of yards. But at some point, if you want/need that 1 yard at the goal line or on 4th down, you have to impose your will on the other team and get the tough yard.

https://www.thepowderblues.com/forum/forum/los-angeles-chargers-forum-nfl-forum-padres-forum/the-los-angeles-chargers-forum/1315413-herbert-vs-his-peers/page23

Running the ball is sometimes about trying to keep the pass rush in check. Only morons think it is a good idea to let the pass rushers get into their sprinter's stance, explode upfield and get after the QB.

It also is handy to wear down the pass rushers, and tire their legs. Pass rushers only have so many good explosive snaps in them over the course of a game, and if they have to use them up playing the run, then those plays make it easier to protect the QB after the DL wears down.

https://www.thepowderblues.com/forum...s-peers/page25

Running still gives teams a chance to impose their will on the defense. At some point all this bullshit about taking what the defense gives you is playing the game they want you to play. No defense can stop everything, so they give you things that will hurt less and try to make some plays on their own.

And teams that don't try and run the ball and work at it never get better. It takes practice time, it takes game time and it takes patience.

In football, there is a hard end to the game. So, efficiency isn't the end all be all. Who cares if you are necessarily being efficient in the offensive or defensive or (ST) sense, it is the efficiency in the point differential, and even that is not that important. The ideal way to end a football game once you have a lead would be to average 3.4 yards per play and drive the ball down and score and eat up the clock while doing so. But none of your poorly thought-through assumptions factor in how to help the D. Keeping them off the field and the offense on is still the best way to protect a bad D and help a good or great D.

You are also dead wrong in your shared assumption with Tony Romo, which is pretty easily done, since Tony is not one of the world's great thinkers. You are ASSUMING that every time we throw that Herbert is a shot to make a 1st down. A lot of our 2nd (and some 3rd down) attempts are not throwing the ball for a 1st down. They are trying to set up a better down and distance for 3rd or 4th down. That is particularly true when we are behind schedule. Those passes aren't giving Herbert a chance. Running to keep on or ahead of schedule is a really, really good way to maintain the attack part of the passing offense. When you are ahead of schedule the WR are going downfield rather than asking our WR, who are NOT quick game specialists, to run route combinations that attack downfield.

https://www.thepowderblues.com/forum...s-peers/page26

You are missing the overall point. It is not to sacrifice the passing game's ability to score points or be able to come from behind. How will the Chargers be able to keep defenses out of 8 and 9 man fronts if they get rid of the decent receivers and keep average players who struggle to beat man coverage or beat zone defenses? We need to improve the run game as part of the general improvement, not at the expense of another part of the offense. We need to attack both with the passing game and the running game.


Also, why draft a RB in round 1? There are plenty of good RB later in the draft. Draft Robinson in the 1st round, with a 1st round salary, and you are basically going to be underutilizing him. Its not as much a field strategy thing as it is a resource management issue. Would a passing team with a Herbert-level QB ever fully utilize their ability/draft status/salary cap which is significant for a 1st round RB? I'm not convinced any team needs a 1st round RB since even a ground-and-pound team needs so much depth or an RB-by-committee approach.

I also don't think our problem is the RB. Sure, the guys we have aren't that great, but they are OK. The problem when RB are getting hit so much in the backfield and tackled for a loss, it's the OL. You need good OL run or pass, and I think our real problem in the running game is: A) a lack of TE/perimeter blocking FB and B). We can't didn't attack the middle of defenses - largely because our TE sucked.

Blueman lacks any ability to comprehend anything beyond black and white. His stupid power is his reek of stupidity.

[Steve]

OL needs cohesiveness to play well as a unit.

And I'd say what you said about Bijan is unknown. He is 220 lbs and led college football by a wide margin in either broken tackles or yards after contact. Can't remember which. Want to say broken tackles.

FWIW, There are a number of bigger backs in the draft this year. I get the sense sometimes people are thinking Robinson is the only chance to get the classic, 220 lb sized RB, and while there is a limited supply many years, this year seems to be different.

[Boltjolt]

FWIW, There are a number of bigger backs in the draft this year. I get the sense sometimes people are thinking Robinson is the only chance to get the classic, 220 lb sized RB, and while there is a limited supply many years, this year seems to be different.

It's not just his size. I'm sure you have seen him play. He is fast and has great vision , quick and makes people miss or can go thru them.amd breaks tackles.
His RB teammate is also 223 LBs and has some of those traits but not all.
His vision isn't quite as good.

I also love Chase Brown who isnt 220 but rather 200-205. Very quick, cuts on a dime and is very strong.

Different traits but my point is saying if we had Bijan and we still couldn't have run the ball better at Jax.
I'm not sure Id say that and that's an unknown.

[blueman]

Blueman lacks any ability to comprehend anything beyond black and white. His stupid power is his reek of stupidity.

Oh tell me how you really feel lol.

I think at 21, BPA is the way to go as we need upgrades of talent at multiple positions including RB (“good enough” sucks), WR (our passing game - our identity - goes down the tubes when one WR is out, not acceptable), OL (cuz OL). A top TE would not suck, gotta focus on I like we focused on D last year.

I don’t think Bijan needs 20 carries to have a big impact in games, but I’m stupid.