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  • CanadianBoltFan
    Registered Charger Fan
    • Jul 2022
    • 10939
    • White Rock, BC Canada
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    #6697
    Originally posted by SAY OW 55 View Post

    I think Warren goes to the 49ers at 11.
    Jets at 7, 49ers at 11 or Colts at 14 I guess

    Comment

    • Steve
      Administrator
      • Jun 2013
      • 7472
      • South Carolina
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      #6698
      Originally posted by Bolt4Knob View Post

      I don't necessarily agree that the team cannot sign Higgins, Sweat or even Trey smith and still not sign other players.

      If the Charger release Bosa and Pipkins, accounting for a rookie draft class and other in season costs - I have the Chargers at basically $70m of cap space.

      Higgins or Trey Smith: 12m
      Poona Ford: 7m
      Molden: 6m
      Dobbins: 6m
      Mack: 15m - one year deal
      Dye: 2m
      Flacco or back up QB: 4m
      Fox: 3m
      Punter: 2m
      OG or WR that you didn't get above: $8m
      Center: $5

      I am at 70m

      Again these are not AAV but cap numbers
      Some might be high, some might be low

      Like Josh Sweat -- since he is younger, his cap hit in year 1 would be less than Mack. The one thing the team should not do with Mack is sign him to a contract that just means future dead cap - or alot. Just go year by year at his age and in the future years, maybe have $6m or less dead cap space. Nothing that will leave $10-12m. So for Mack - something like two years, $12m signing bonus, $6m salary in year one, he gets $18m but the cap hit is $12m. If he has a good year, can have a similar type contract - if not release with $6m of dead

      Also, if you don't get say Trey Smith or Higgins, thats fine - get a player like Zeitler or Scherff and draft a OG
      Same at WR

      Maybe it is okay to sign vets to one year deals as a bridge and keep future cap space
      You know the cap numbers for both Smith and Higgins are way to low. Higgins is looking for north of $20 mill. That would be in the neighborhood of the 22nd highest paid WR. There are the top 6 WR all making more than $30 million each.

      As far as Smith goes, remember that Robert Hunt got a 5yr -$100 mill contract last year as an OG and he is no where near the player that Smith is. Half the teams in the league need to upgrade the IOL (based on CBS Sports team needs), so the demand is going to push his amount higher.

      I get that you can play with the structure and get the cap hit down, but there is only so much you can play with it. These guys want big money and the big bonus that goes with it. And players are starting to shy away from the hugely backloaded deals, knowing they won't see a lot of that money. They can't always, but when the market is this big, someone will make an offer where the FA can get a big money bonus and guaranteed couple of years, knowing that no one will give up on a big money FA that quick.

      And lets not forget how many big money FA are complete busts. Teams rarely get the quick fixes. You don't get the player you think you are paying for.

      Comment

      • Boltnut
        Registered Charger Fan
        • Feb 2019
        • 8609
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        #6699
        Originally posted by Bolt4Knob View Post

        I guess I would need to see what Boltnut is signing these players for to have it make sense to me. I mean to go from 70m to 24 - -- thats a lot of cap space - -especially if they are on a lot of the current free agents. I would hope Hortiz tries to do better

        As based on my math - I think they have enough for both Higgins and Sweat - -more so are they the right players. I think IOL is a bigger need in free agency.
        Starting cap space (OTC): $63 million. 45 players on the roster... 14 of these players are on "futures" contracts and probably don't make the roster. Chris Hinton, Morris-Brash and Brenden Rice are part of the 14 that might make the final 53-man roster. In reality, there are 31 players on the roster... some of which I would cut... due to bad contract... or bad scheme fit.

        Special note: Both Slater ($19m) and Mack ($8.9) are part of the 31 legitimate players left. Slater, because of his 5th-year option... and Mack, because of the remaining voided/restructure money from last season.

        Cuts: Bosa (contract/injury), Pipkins (contract/fit), Ja'Sir Taylor (fit/effectiveness). Resulting cap space: $96.7m. 28 legitimate players remain on the roster.

        Re-signs (contract amounts largely follow OTC's valuation estimations):
        Khalili Mack ($13m): OTC's value = $11.6m... his value goes beyong the sack numbers. With Joey cut... vital re-signing.
        Poona Ford ($8m): OTC's value = $9.5m... but I think he wants to be here, and 9.5 seems a bit high to me.
        Teair Tart ($4m): OTC's value = $2.1m... but I think that's a bit low. His play improved as the year went on.
        Denzel Perryman ($2.5m): OTC's value = $1.8m... last year he was signed for $2.3m. He was the best LB v. the run last year. Vital depth.
        Troy Dye ($3m): OTC's value = $3.6m... Fair value for a backup LB. Vital depth. I think he wants to come back.
        Kristian Fulton ($5m): OTC's value = $4m... CB's have NFL value... and we are thin here. Earlier in the season his OTC value was higher.
        Elijah Molden ($7m): OTC's value = $6.6m... vital depth @safety. He may start over Gilman. We use 3 safeties often.
        JK Dobbins ($5m): OTC's value = $4.1m... the offense was so much better with him healthy. Keep him healthy by drafting a supplementary RB.
        Taylor Heinicke ($2m): OTC's value = $1.5m... cheap backup option familiar with the offense.
        JK Scott ($2.5m): OTC's value = $2.8m... ST coach seems to value hang-time.
        Foster Sarell ($1.5m): OTC's value = $1.7m... really just a roster signing of a familiar face.
        Stone Smartt ($2m): OTC's value = $2.3m... another roster filler. May not fit Gro's scheme... but showed promise late. Vital depth.
        Tucker Fiske ($1.3m): Exclusive rights candidate. Cheap. Roster spot. Fiske, Smartt, Sarell, Scott, and Heinicke are replaceable... but cheap.

        With all of the cuts and re-signings we're now @$47m under the cap. We have 54 roster spots filled... but 14 of those are futures players that probably end up on the practice squad. The great thing about re-signing your own befor the official start of the season (March 3rd?) is that they don't count against compensatory calculation. Maybe the salaries are off... but I tried to use OTC's valuations rather than my own biases. Many will be unhappy with my choices (Perryman?)... but you have to fill roster spots and satisfy depth.

        Outside free agents. I'm concentrating on an IOL re-build. With all of the needs along the roster, I'm going for the relatively cheaper position (IOL) but after players generally considered mid/top tier players:

        RG Kevin Zeitler ($9m): OTC's value = $10.5m... seems a bit much for an older player (35 years). But he's still playing at a high level. It probably takes an amount that approaches a fair deal (considering his production). Fits right into the Roman offense (former Raven) and you don't have wait for development or fret over the riskiness of draft projections... you know what you're getting. You know a major problem has been fixed. Detroit got a major deal @$6m this season.
        LG/OC James Daniels ($8.5m): OTC's value = $800,000 (LOL). This will be my riskiest (most controversial) signing. Hasn't played much center in the NFL, but played a lot of center in college at a very high level. He was projected to be a center when he was drafted. He's coming off of an achilles injury, which is why his OTC valuation is so low. He's coming off a contract that paid him $8.8m APY ($11.2m against last year's cap).

        The final results: $29m under the cap... with 56 roster spots filled (14 of those being probable practice squad players. Effectively, 42 roster spots filled.
        The 10 draft picks will fill most of the remaining spots... but is estimated to cost $11.2m in cap. Some of that cost will be saved as the players they replace will make less as practice squad players @practice squad salaries. Others here @TPB are better at computing those costs/savings... but my best estimate puts us @$21-24m cap space. Maybe enough space to sign another mid-ranged free agent.

        Sorry about the length. There is a lot that goes into the computations.
        Protect the QB
        Run the ball
        Play great defense

        Comment

        • Bolt4Knob
          Registered Charger Fan
          • Dec 2019
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          #6700
          Originally posted by Steve View Post

          You know the cap numbers for both Smith and Higgins are way to low. Higgins is looking for north of $20 mill. That would be in the neighborhood of the 22nd highest paid WR. There are the top 6 WR all making more than $30 million each.

          As far as Smith goes, remember that Robert Hunt got a 5yr -$100 mill contract last year as an OG and he is no where near the player that Smith is. Half the teams in the league need to upgrade the IOL (based on CBS Sports team needs), so the demand is going to push his amount higher.

          I get that you can play with the structure and get the cap hit down, but there is only so much you can play with it. These guys want big money and the big bonus that goes with it. And players are starting to shy away from the hugely backloaded deals, knowing they won't see a lot of that money. They can't always, but when the market is this big, someone will make an offer where the FA can get a big money bonus and guaranteed couple of years, knowing that no one will give up on a big money FA that quick.

          And lets not forget how many big money FA are complete busts. Teams rarely get the quick fixes. You don't get the player you think you are paying for.
          The numbers for Higgins and Smirth aren't too low because they are cap numbers - not AAV.

          Comment

          • Bolt4Knob
            Registered Charger Fan
            • Dec 2019
            • 20040
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            #6701
            Originally posted by Boltnut View Post

            Starting cap space (OTC): $63 million. 45 players on the roster... 14 of these players are on "futures" contracts and probably don't make the roster. Chris Hinton, Morris-Brash and Brenden Rice are part of the 14 that might make the final 53-man roster. In reality, there are 31 players on the roster... some of which I would cut... due to bad contract... or bad scheme fit.

            Special note: Both Slater ($19m) and Mack ($8.9) are part of the 31 legitimate players left. Slater, because of his 5th-year option... and Mack, because of the remaining voided/restructure money from last season.

            Cuts: Bosa (contract/injury), Pipkins (contract/fit), Ja'Sir Taylor (fit/effectiveness). Resulting cap space: $96.7m. 28 legitimate players remain on the roster.

            Re-signs (contract amounts largely follow OTC's valuation estimations):
            Khalili Mack ($13m): OTC's value = $11.6m... his value goes beyong the sack numbers. With Joey cut... vital re-signing.
            Poona Ford ($8m): OTC's value = $9.5m... but I think he wants to be here, and 9.5 seems a bit high to me.
            Teair Tart ($4m): OTC's value = $2.1m... but I think that's a bit low. His play improved as the year went on.
            Denzel Perryman ($2.5m): OTC's value = $1.8m... last year he was signed for $2.3m. He was the best LB v. the run last year. Vital depth.
            Troy Dye ($3m): OTC's value = $3.6m... Fair value for a backup LB. Vital depth. I think he wants to come back.
            Kristian Fulton ($5m): OTC's value = $4m... CB's have NFL value... and we are thin here. Earlier in the season his OTC value was higher.
            Elijah Molden ($7m): OTC's value = $6.6m... vital depth @safety. He may start over Gilman. We use 3 safeties often.
            JK Dobbins ($5m): OTC's value = $4.1m... the offense was so much better with him healthy. Keep him healthy by drafting a supplementary RB.
            Taylor Heinicke ($2m): OTC's value = $1.5m... cheap backup option familiar with the offense.
            JK Scott ($2.5m): OTC's value = $2.8m... ST coach seems to value hang-time.
            Foster Sarell ($1.5m): OTC's value = $1.7m... really just a roster signing of a familiar face.
            Stone Smartt ($2m): OTC's value = $2.3m... another roster filler. May not fit Gro's scheme... but showed promise late. Vital depth.
            Tucker Fiske ($1.3m): Exclusive rights candidate. Cheap. Roster spot. Fiske, Smartt, Sarell, Scott, and Heinicke are replaceable... but cheap.

            With all of the cuts and re-signings we're now @$47m under the cap. We have 54 roster spots filled... but 14 of those are futures players that probably end up on the practice squad. The great thing about re-signing your own befor the official start of the season (March 3rd?) is that they don't count against compensatory calculation. Maybe the salaries are off... but I tried to use OTC's valuations rather than my own biases. Many will be unhappy with my choices (Perryman?)... but you have to fill roster spots and satisfy depth.

            Outside free agents. I'm concentrating on an IOL re-build. With all of the needs along the roster, I'm going for the relatively cheaper position (IOL) but after players generally considered mid/top tier players:

            RG Kevin Zeitler ($9m): OTC's value = $10.5m... seems a bit much for an older player (35 years). But he's still playing at a high level. It probably takes an amount that approaches a fair deal (considering his production). Fits right into the Roman offense (former Raven) and you don't have wait for development or fret over the riskiness of draft projections... you know what you're getting. You know a major problem has been fixed. Detroit got a major deal @$6m this season.
            LG/OC James Daniels ($8.5m): OTC's value = $800,000 (LOL). This will be my riskiest (most controversial) signing. Hasn't played much center in the NFL, but played a lot of center in college at a very high level. He was projected to be a center when he was drafted. He's coming off of an achilles injury, which is why his OTC valuation is so low. He's coming off a contract that paid him $8.8m APY ($11.2m against last year's cap).

            The final results: $29m under the cap... with 56 roster spots filled (14 of those being probable practice squad players. Effectively, 42 roster spots filled.
            The 10 draft picks will fill most of the remaining spots... but is estimated to cost $11.2m in cap. Some of that cost will be saved as the players they replace will make less as practice squad players @practice squad salaries. Others here @TPB are better at computing those costs/savings... but my best estimate puts us @$21-24m cap space. Maybe enough space to sign another mid-ranged free agent.

            Sorry about the length. There is a lot that goes into the computations.
            Thanks for the list.

            I think the big difference -so based on this - I do think the Chargers can sign outside free agents
            Not all of the players above will be back but allocation of resources and I do think the Chargers can easily sign a Trey Smith and still be able to put together a competive roster

            Granted - on my list
            Perryman - too injury prone. He got hurt, came back against Houston, played four plays and got hurt again
            JK Scott - borderline average punter - sign a minimum level guy
            Fiske - I think for the ERFA, might make sense

            A lot of these players - will wait until AFTER free agency and the draft because there just might be better options for the same dollars.

            Comment

            • Fouts2herbert
              Charger Fan since 1978
              • Sep 2021
              • 9064
              • San Diego
              • Send PM

              #6702
              Originally posted by Boltnut View Post

              Starting cap space (OTC): $63 million. 45 players on the roster... 14 of these players are on "futures" contracts and probably don't make the roster. Chris Hinton, Morris-Brash and Brenden Rice are part of the 14 that might make the final 53-man roster. In reality, there are 31 players on the roster... some of which I would cut... due to bad contract... or bad scheme fit.

              Special note: Both Slater ($19m) and Mack ($8.9) are part of the 31 legitimate players left. Slater, because of his 5th-year option... and Mack, because of the remaining voided/restructure money from last season.

              Cuts: Bosa (contract/injury), Pipkins (contract/fit), Ja'Sir Taylor (fit/effectiveness). Resulting cap space: $96.7m. 28 legitimate players remain on the roster.

              Re-signs (contract amounts largely follow OTC's valuation estimations):
              Khalili Mack ($13m): OTC's value = $11.6m... his value goes beyong the sack numbers. With Joey cut... vital re-signing.
              Poona Ford ($8m): OTC's value = $9.5m... but I think he wants to be here, and 9.5 seems a bit high to me.
              Teair Tart ($4m): OTC's value = $2.1m... but I think that's a bit low. His play improved as the year went on.
              Denzel Perryman ($2.5m): OTC's value = $1.8m... last year he was signed for $2.3m. He was the best LB v. the run last year. Vital depth.
              Troy Dye ($3m): OTC's value = $3.6m... Fair value for a backup LB. Vital depth. I think he wants to come back.
              Kristian Fulton ($5m): OTC's value = $4m... CB's have NFL value... and we are thin here. Earlier in the season his OTC value was higher.
              Elijah Molden ($7m): OTC's value = $6.6m... vital depth @safety. He may start over Gilman. We use 3 safeties often.
              JK Dobbins ($5m): OTC's value = $4.1m... the offense was so much better with him healthy. Keep him healthy by drafting a supplementary RB.
              Taylor Heinicke ($2m): OTC's value = $1.5m... cheap backup option familiar with the offense.
              JK Scott ($2.5m): OTC's value = $2.8m... ST coach seems to value hang-time.
              Foster Sarell ($1.5m): OTC's value = $1.7m... really just a roster signing of a familiar face.
              Stone Smartt ($2m): OTC's value = $2.3m... another roster filler. May not fit Gro's scheme... but showed promise late. Vital depth.
              Tucker Fiske ($1.3m): Exclusive rights candidate. Cheap. Roster spot. Fiske, Smartt, Sarell, Scott, and Heinicke are replaceable... but cheap.

              With all of the cuts and re-signings we're now @$47m under the cap. We have 54 roster spots filled... but 14 of those are futures players that probably end up on the practice squad. The great thing about re-signing your own befor the official start of the season (March 3rd?) is that they don't count against compensatory calculation. Maybe the salaries are off... but I tried to use OTC's valuations rather than my own biases. Many will be unhappy with my choices (Perryman?)... but you have to fill roster spots and satisfy depth.

              Outside free agents. I'm concentrating on an IOL re-build. With all of the needs along the roster, I'm going for the relatively cheaper position (IOL) but after players generally considered mid/top tier players:

              RG Kevin Zeitler ($9m): OTC's value = $10.5m... seems a bit much for an older player (35 years). But he's still playing at a high level. It probably takes an amount that approaches a fair deal (considering his production). Fits right into the Roman offense (former Raven) and you don't have wait for development or fret over the riskiness of draft projections... you know what you're getting. You know a major problem has been fixed. Detroit got a major deal @$6m this season.
              LG/OC James Daniels ($8.5m): OTC's value = $800,000 (LOL). This will be my riskiest (most controversial) signing. Hasn't played much center in the NFL, but played a lot of center in college at a very high level. He was projected to be a center when he was drafted. He's coming off of an achilles injury, which is why his OTC valuation is so low. He's coming off a contract that paid him $8.8m APY ($11.2m against last year's cap).

              The final results: $29m under the cap... with 56 roster spots filled (14 of those being probable practice squad players. Effectively, 42 roster spots filled.
              The 10 draft picks will fill most of the remaining spots... but is estimated to cost $11.2m in cap. Some of that cost will be saved as the players they replace will make less as practice squad players @practice squad salaries. Others here @TPB are better at computing those costs/savings... but my best estimate puts us @$21-24m cap space. Maybe enough space to sign another mid-ranged free agent.

              Sorry about the length. There is a lot that goes into the computations.
              This is a nice breakdown, and I'll point out that Hortiz is probably only going to target 1 maybe 2 qualified free agents like what you have posted here, BUT he might also target guys that will get cut as cap casualties making it so he doesn't even hit the comp formula on any of his signings, that's how they've operated in Baltimore the whole time he was there...

              Guys like Fox, Palmer or Samuel might get cancelled out in the comp formula but then you still get comps for whoever is left of those three and any number of guys that could end up leaving and finding some money in FA, I do believe we'll keep most of the guys we want back like Molden, Ford, Mack, Heinicke, and Tart...but guys like Fulton, Jaimes, Perryman, and others should net the team some compensatory picks for 2026
              "The author assumes no responsibility or liability for any errors or omissions in the content of this post. The information contained in this post is provided on an "as is" basis with no guarantees of completeness, accuracy, usefulness or timeliness..."​​

              Comment

              • charger1_sj
                Registered Charger Fan
                • Nov 2022
                • 2583
                • Send PM

                #6703
                Originally posted by Boltnut View Post

                Starting cap space (OTC): $63 million. 45 players on the roster... 14 of these players are on "futures" contracts and probably don't make the roster. Chris Hinton, Morris-Brash and Brenden Rice are part of the 14 that might make the final 53-man roster. In reality, there are 31 players on the roster... some of which I would cut... due to bad contract... or bad scheme fit.

                Special note: Both Slater ($19m) and Mack ($8.9) are part of the 31 legitimate players left. Slater, because of his 5th-year option... and Mack, because of the remaining voided/restructure money from last season.

                Cuts: Bosa (contract/injury), Pipkins (contract/fit), Ja'Sir Taylor (fit/effectiveness). Resulting cap space: $96.7m. 28 legitimate players remain on the roster.

                Re-signs (contract amounts largely follow OTC's valuation estimations):
                Khalili Mack ($13m): OTC's value = $11.6m... his value goes beyong the sack numbers. With Joey cut... vital re-signing.
                Poona Ford ($8m): OTC's value = $9.5m... but I think he wants to be here, and 9.5 seems a bit high to me.
                Teair Tart ($4m): OTC's value = $2.1m... but I think that's a bit low. His play improved as the year went on.
                Denzel Perryman ($2.5m): OTC's value = $1.8m... last year he was signed for $2.3m. He was the best LB v. the run last year. Vital depth.
                Troy Dye ($3m): OTC's value = $3.6m... Fair value for a backup LB. Vital depth. I think he wants to come back.
                Kristian Fulton ($5m): OTC's value = $4m... CB's have NFL value... and we are thin here. Earlier in the season his OTC value was higher.
                Elijah Molden ($7m): OTC's value = $6.6m... vital depth @safety. He may start over Gilman. We use 3 safeties often.
                JK Dobbins ($5m): OTC's value = $4.1m... the offense was so much better with him healthy. Keep him healthy by drafting a supplementary RB.
                Taylor Heinicke ($2m): OTC's value = $1.5m... cheap backup option familiar with the offense.
                JK Scott ($2.5m): OTC's value = $2.8m... ST coach seems to value hang-time.
                Foster Sarell ($1.5m): OTC's value = $1.7m... really just a roster signing of a familiar face.
                Stone Smartt ($2m): OTC's value = $2.3m... another roster filler. May not fit Gro's scheme... but showed promise late. Vital depth.
                Tucker Fiske ($1.3m): Exclusive rights candidate. Cheap. Roster spot. Fiske, Smartt, Sarell, Scott, and Heinicke are replaceable... but cheap.

                With all of the cuts and re-signings we're now @$47m under the cap. We have 54 roster spots filled... but 14 of those are futures players that probably end up on the practice squad. The great thing about re-signing your own befor the official start of the season (March 3rd?) is that they don't count against compensatory calculation. Maybe the salaries are off... but I tried to use OTC's valuations rather than my own biases. Many will be unhappy with my choices (Perryman?)... but you have to fill roster spots and satisfy depth.

                Outside free agents. I'm concentrating on an IOL re-build. With all of the needs along the roster, I'm going for the relatively cheaper position (IOL) but after players generally considered mid/top tier players:

                RG Kevin Zeitler ($9m): OTC's value = $10.5m... seems a bit much for an older player (35 years). But he's still playing at a high level. It probably takes an amount that approaches a fair deal (considering his production). Fits right into the Roman offense (former Raven) and you don't have wait for development or fret over the riskiness of draft projections... you know what you're getting. You know a major problem has been fixed. Detroit got a major deal @$6m this season.
                LG/OC James Daniels ($8.5m): OTC's value = $800,000 (LOL). This will be my riskiest (most controversial) signing. Hasn't played much center in the NFL, but played a lot of center in college at a very high level. He was projected to be a center when he was drafted. He's coming off of an achilles injury, which is why his OTC valuation is so low. He's coming off a contract that paid him $8.8m APY ($11.2m against last year's cap).

                The final results: $29m under the cap... with 56 roster spots filled (14 of those being probable practice squad players. Effectively, 42 roster spots filled.
                The 10 draft picks will fill most of the remaining spots... but is estimated to cost $11.2m in cap. Some of that cost will be saved as the players they replace will make less as practice squad players @practice squad salaries. Others here @TPB are better at computing those costs/savings... but my best estimate puts us @$21-24m cap space. Maybe enough space to sign another mid-ranged free agent.

                Sorry about the length. There is a lot that goes into the computations.
                That's a decent analysis. Is the OTC number cap hit for 2025 or market value per year? Could be a big difference.

                Comment

                • Boltnut
                  Registered Charger Fan
                  • Feb 2019
                  • 8609
                  • Send PM

                  #6704
                  Originally posted by Bolt4Knob View Post

                  Thanks for the list.

                  I think the big difference -so based on this - I do think the Chargers can sign outside free agents
                  Not all of the players above will be back but allocation of resources and I do think the Chargers can easily sign a Trey Smith and still be able to put together a competive roster

                  Granted - on my list
                  Perryman - too injury prone. He got hurt, came back against Houston, played four plays and got hurt again
                  JK Scott - borderline average punter - sign a minimum level guy
                  Fiske - I think for the ERFA, might make sense

                  A lot of these players - will wait until AFTER free agency and the draft because there just might be better options for the same dollars.
                  OTC has Trey Smith's market value @$12m. But I think most people believe it will take $20m to sign him. At that amount, it would make him the 3rd highest paid guard. The difference between that cap number and Kevin Zeitler's proposed cap number would be $11m. With that move, you reduce your cap number down to $10-13m. Not re-signing Perryman or Scott could save another 2 million dollars. It's doable... but gives you less to sign injury replacements during the season.
                  Protect the QB
                  Run the ball
                  Play great defense

                  Comment

                  • Boltnut
                    Registered Charger Fan
                    • Feb 2019
                    • 8609
                    • Send PM

                    #6705
                    Originally posted by charger1_sj View Post

                    That's a decent analysis. Is the OTC number cap hit for 2025 or market value per year? Could be a big difference.
                    It's per year. Granted, GM's tend to back-load longer contracts to save money for current cap.
                    But many of my re-signs are 1-2 year re-signs (less able to spread APY). And back-loading contracts too much stresses future caps.
                    Protect the QB
                    Run the ball
                    Play great defense

                    Comment

                    • Bolt4Knob
                      Registered Charger Fan
                      • Dec 2019
                      • 20040
                      • Send PM

                      #6706
                      Originally posted by Fouts2herbert View Post

                      This is a nice breakdown, and I'll point out that Hortiz is probably only going to target 1 maybe 2 qualified free agents like what you have posted here, meaning that Fox, Palmer or Samuel will be cancelled out in the comp formula but then you still get comps for whoever is left of those three and any number of guys that could end up leaving and finding some money in FA, I do believe we'll keep most of the guys we want back like Molden, Ford, Mack, Heinicke, and Tart...but guys like Fulton, Jaimes, Perryman, and others should net the team some compensatory picks for 2026
                      I don't think Perryman and Jaimes are getting anything in terms of comp picks. Perryman also has been in the league too long so his value is maxed anyway at a 5th rounder but he won't sign for enough

                      I am good with getting comp picks - where it makes sense. But I also think the Chargers are in a unique position with cap space to not worry about comp picks but find the right free agents

                      Like if players are released - they are older usually and on the downhill side of their careers. Davante Adams released wants 15m or Slayton wants 8m - probably saying screw the comp pick and get Slayton

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                      • Bolt4Knob
                        Registered Charger Fan
                        • Dec 2019
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                        #6707
                        Originally posted by Boltnut View Post

                        OTC has Trey Smith's market value @$12m. But I think most people believe it will take $20m to sign him. At that amount, it would make him the 3rd highest paid guard. The difference between that cap number and Kevin Zeitler's proposed cap number would be $11m. With that move, you reduce your cap number down to $10-13m. Not re-signing Perryman or Scott could save another 2 million dollars. It's doable... but gives you less to sign injury replacements during the season.

                        Trey Smith - his AAV is going to be like $22m - but he is also 26 and one of the best RGs in football. In that instance, I would take Smith over Zeitler even at the higher cost.

                        Now as a fallback, Zeilter for one year at $8-10m would be solid. But I still prefer a longer term solution if possible

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                        • powderblueboy
                          Registered Charger Fan
                          • Jul 2017
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                          #6708
                          Originally posted by Steve View Post

                          You know the cap numbers for both Smith and Higgins are way to low. Higgins is looking for north of $20 mill. That would be in the neighborhood of the 22nd highest paid WR. There are the top 6 WR all making more than $30 million each.

                          As far as Smith goes, remember that Robert Hunt got a 5yr -$100 mill contract last year as an OG and he is no where near the player that Smith is. Half the teams in the league need to upgrade the IOL (based on CBS Sports team needs), so the demand is going to push his amount higher.

                          I get that you can play with the structure and get the cap hit down, but there is only so much you can play with it. These guys want big money and the big bonus that goes with it. And players are starting to shy away from the hugely backloaded deals, knowing they won't see a lot of that money. They can't always, but when the market is this big, someone will make an offer where the FA can get a big money bonus and guaranteed couple of years, knowing that no one will give up on a big money FA that quick.

                          And lets not forget how many big money FA are complete busts. Teams rarely get the quick fixes. You don't get the player you think you are paying for.
                          Disagree somewhat with this.
                          When it came to FA, Tom Telesco was like the innocent fresh seaman on shore leave for the first time heading into the red light district with his monthly pay.

                          But where would the Chiefs be without Joe Thuney: all pro guard who will play LT this week?
                          Mitchell Schwartz was a key cog in the first two Chief's Super Bowl appearances.

                          You need to know when to pull the trigger with elite free agents.

                          If Hortiz prefers going after low tier free agents, i'm fine with it.

                          note: Slater's new contract was not mentioned in next year's cap

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