Oh Boy...I'm gonna get nailed for this one.

[Den60]

The question is why are you so bullish on resigning him? He's already had to miss time, has yet to make any impact plays, and has been generally a disappointment this season. For the numbers that many of you were throwing around (top 5 ILB contracts) he's just not with that. This was a prove it year, so far he's proving he's not a franchise ILB. I'll be happy to see him prove me wrong.

Then you compare him with Cushing and Lee who got the big extensions and are making plays all over the field. Not even close to comparable. There's rookie ILB's and cheap vet options all having better years than him.

Spend those dollars on an OLB, a NT, or even Jarius Byrd who would even be cheaper but has already played at an all pro level.

Obviously this comes off as a rant, but just look at the salary cap expenditures for the chargers and we are paying top dollar for mediocre play. That needs to end.

Because I think he is one of the few players on our team that is worth keeping. You tell me how many you think are our future. From your posts none in the front 7 (well other than Te'o and JJ). Also I think you focus way too much on FF stats rather than things that may be contributing to reduced production from players that played at a pretty high level last year. Last year we had a pretty good NT who was subbed by a NT who was pretty good in getting pressure on the QB. We get rid of that first guy and you don't expect any repercussions from that along the line because the second guy in now the first guy. Oh, we back that guy up with a UDFA player with a history of motivational issues who may or may not be active for us on game day. You have Butler playing next to a seasoned vet last year (OK, that vet was slow but he friggen knew what to do even if he couldn't quite get there). This year you have him starting next to either Bird or Te'o neither of which are very good. Think that doesn't have an effect? Add to that we have been weak at the OLB position. You know, they call it the front 7 for a reason. Finally, we have Reyes who was really only used on passing downs last year and this year is on the field a whole lot more. He wasn't considered good against the run last year which is why he didn't become a starter until an injury made him so.

Maybe the subtraction didn't lead to an addition for us on defense. Ever consider that?

[Den60]

Don't you think that if Tampa offered two 1st-round picks and a 2nd for Rivers we would take it? We'd be STUPID not to, IMO. Look at my post in the thread where I tried (unsuccessfully) to name 15 NFL-starter-worthy players on our roster. I had Stuckey/Taylor at #15. A special-teamer and an unproven, injured rookie (essentially).

Tampa or Cleveland would probably yield the most for us. He could walk into Cleveland and not miss a beat this season. He'd just have to adjust to the WR corps.

Won't happen though.

[Beerman]

Because I think he is one of the few players on our team that is worth keeping. You tell me how many you think are our future. From your posts none in the front 7 (well other than Te'o and JJ). Also I think you focus way too much on FF stats rather than things that may be contributing to reduced production from players that played at a pretty high level last year. Last year we had a pretty good NT who was subbed by a NT who was pretty good in getting pressure on the QB. We get rid of that first guy and you don't expect any repercussions from that along the line because the second guy in now the first guy. Oh, we back that guy up with a UDFA player with a history of motivational issues who may or may not be active for us on game day. You have Butler playing next to a seasoned vet last year (OK, that vet was slow but he friggen knew what to do even if he couldn't quite get there). This year you have him starting next to either Bird or Te'o neither of which are very good. Think that doesn't have an effect? Add to that we have been weak at the OLB position. You know, they call it the front 7 for a reason. Finally, we have Reyes who was really only used on passing downs last year and this year is on the field a whole lot more. He wasn't considered good against the run last year which is why he didn't become a starter until an injury made him so.

Maybe the subtraction didn't lead to an addition for us on defense. Ever consider that?

Other players won't help him stay healthy. All I'm reading are excuses. The truly elite players make those around him better, not the other way around. Butler is not in that category, but wants to get paid as such. All you just described is a player that needs a significant amount of help around him to excel. Those players don't command 40 million plus extensions.

[Den60]

Other players won't help him stay healthy. All I'm reading are excuses. The truly elite players make those around him better, not the other way around. Butler is not in that category, but wants to get paid as such. All you just described is a player that needs a significant amount of help around him to excel. Those players don't command 40 million plus extensions.

Sure, don't re-sign him. Addition by subtraction once more. Hell, we have a couple of weeks to trade him. May as well get some value for him, eh? Why not throw Luiget onto the block as well. You ain't all that high on him either.

[Beerman]

Sure, don't re-sign him. Addition by subtraction once more. Hell, we have a couple of weeks to trade him. May as well get some value for him, eh? Why not throw Luiget onto the block as well. You ain't all that high on him either.

Who said I'm not high on Liuget? I've criticized him for not playing up to last seasons level, but he's also been playing through an injury. He's also 2 years from needing an extension.

Butler hasn't shown elite play yet aside from a game or two. He's missed a ton of games. Everyone expects him to take that next step to being a dominant player, but he just hasn't done it.

Sorry if I dont want to pay for potential and get screwed over again with an underperforming player that we are paying 10% of our cap for.

He needs to perform on the field and actually stay on it for him to have any leverage on a big contract extension. So far he hasn't proved shit this season and keeps getting trucked by the opposing team. All I ask is that he actually makes some impact plays for the defense, like all the rest of the franchise ILBs in the league do.

I mean shit, from someone who saw truly great ILB play with Seau, do you really think he's even in close to being that type of player? Because you sure do want to pay him as such.

[oneinchpunch]

Seau was a MLB in a 4-3. Much different than a 3-4 ILB.

[QSmokey]

Sure, don't re-sign him. Addition by subtraction once more. Hell, we have a couple of weeks to trade him. May as well get some value for him, eh? Why not throw Luiget onto the block as well. You ain't all that high on him either.

Nobody on the current roster is going to be around when we win the Super Bowl - hell, most of US aren't going to be around, either LOL! - so we might as well get something for him while we can.

[homeless simpson]

Seau was a MLB in a 4-3. Much different than a 3-4 ILB.

Seau played his first 2 years in the 3-4 defense, was a probowl alternate his rookie season (85 tackles), first of 12 probowls came in 1991 when he had 7 sacks and 129 tackles his 2nd year....and Ross came in and switched to the 4-3 his 3rd year.

[oneinchpunch]

Seau played his first 2 years in the 3-4 defense, was a probowl alternate his rookie season (85 tackles), first of 12 probowls came in 1991 when he had 7 sacks and 129 tackles his 2nd year....and Ross came in and switched to the 4-3 his 3rd year.

A much different 3-4 defense.

Obviously it's ridiculous to compare one of the greatest LBs ever to a guy that is just starting out. But their responsibilities were/are much different

[homeless simpson]

A much different 3-4 defense.

Obviously it's ridiculous to compare one of the greatest LBs ever to a guy that is just starting out. But their responsibilities were are much different

well, it also helped to be playing alongside tackling machine Gary Plummer, with Burt Grossman and Leslie Oneal in the front 7

[Beerman]

Just starting out? It's his 4th year...

[oneinchpunch]

Just starting out? It's his 4th year...

Seau played 19 seasons.

So yes, just starting out. For comparisons sake.