The Offensive Line - Okung Could Miss All Of Camp

[dmac_bolt]

PFF bases their grades exclusively on past performances. Problem is, and PFF did the study that proves it, player development is closely tied to the # of reps a player gets. Tevi and Feeney are both getting to the sweet spot where they have gotten enough reps that we will finally see how good they will be. Tevi was a 1st year starter with few game reps and not much practice experience. He got a lot better as the season went on, although he was pretty bad at the start. Feeney was similar. I am not sure how they decide on Lamp's grades.

Its possible, i just don't like bets this unsure. I'd feel better about that hypothesis if either of them got better as last season wore on, instead of worse. Just my obs, maybe i missed subtle improvement. They looked just worse at the end of year to my naked eyes.

[blueman]

OL better step up, also Whiz needs to change things up if we're starting a RB other than Gordon.

[Steve]

Its possible, i just don't like bets this unsure. I'd feel better about that hypothesis if either of them got better as last season wore on, instead of worse. Just my obs, maybe i missed subtle improvement. They looked just worse at the end of year to my naked eyes.

They are human beings, not sure things. Nothing with people are ever a sure thing.

It wasn't a straight "up" arrow. The OL didn't finish the season with as much of an improvement as they did mid-season because of who we played. Pitt, KC, Den, Baltimore (2x), NE..... those are some of the best DL in football. The OL got a lot better as the season went on before struggling against some of the best DL in football late. Tevi was getting his ass kicked in the 1st week vs KC, and it wasn't even close. They did get better. It's just not good enough.

The point that needs to be made is that this was a very bad group 2 years ago, and they got better this last season. It is not a done deal. The OL is not good enough. They have to get better.

The problem was that the Chargers had a lot of needs this offseason.

If we had gone out and just tried wholesale replacements for the OL, that would have meant that Adderley and Tillery would not be on our D, so we would have been trying on Addae, Phillon and Liuget to step up their games. Those are useful players, but all of them is about as good as they will get, and Addae was being played way out of position. There was never a way to add enough help to fill all the holes we had. So, the OL was not fixed, to give the young players that have not played a chance to develop.

I'm not thrilled with the idea. In a perfect world, I would have preferred to add players to at least compete against Tevi, Feeney and Schofield, if not outright replace them. We didn't have the money in the salary cap to sign 3 players at $10-15 million per season to start on the OL, and that is assuming that we wouldn't have lost the bidding wars to get any of the top OL. That was our entire salary cap, including signing our own players, and would have made it difficult to sign our own players (Bosa, Rivers, ...) in the near future. There were few OL who would have been improvements over the players we had.

We could have drafted them, but then there are the holes on D. We only get 7 draft picks per year, and not all of them are going to turn into starters right away.

It is making the best of a bad situation. The Chargers front office is gambling that we can get better overall if we fill the defensive holes and see if the younger, cheaper OL we already have can develop. Again, the OL may not have been a great group, but they did have their moments. We did address the major holes on D, and there is competition at every position that is not an established strength.

I agree with the front office to a point. We are better off with the strategy we took. It puts the best team on the field. I'm not going to take out a 2nd mortgage on my house to bet on the Chargers to win the SB or anything, but it is the best use of our resources. Will it be enough?????????? We will see.

If the OL doesn't develop, then, yeah, we have to gut the group and find new players. That probably means several new players via the draft.

[wu-dai clan]

They are human beings, not sure things. Nothing with people are ever a sure thing.

It wasn't a straight "up" arrow. The OL didn't finish the season with as much of an improvement as they did mid-season because of who we played. Pitt, KC, Den, Baltimore (2x), NE..... those are some of the best DL in football. The OL got a lot better as the season went on before struggling against some of the best DL in football late. Tevi was getting his ass kicked in the 1st week vs KC, and it wasn't even close. They did get better. It's just not good enough.

The point that needs to be made is that this was a very bad group 2 years ago, and they got better this last season. It is not a done deal. The OL is not good enough. They have to get better.

The problem was that the Chargers had a lot of needs this offseason.

If we had gone out and just tried wholesale replacements for the OL, that would have meant that Adderley and Tillery would not be on our D, so we would have been trying on Addae, Phillon and Liuget to step up their games. Those are useful players, but all of them is about as good as they will get, and Addae was being played way out of position. There was never a way to add enough help to fill all the holes we had. So, the OL was not fixed, to give the young players that have not played a chance to develop.

I'm not thrilled with the idea. In a perfect world, I would have preferred to add players to at least compete against Tevi, Feeney and Schofield, if not outright replace them. We didn't have the money in the salary cap to sign 3 players at $10-15 million per season to start on the OL, and that is assuming that we wouldn't have lost the bidding wars to get any of the top OL. That was our entire salary cap, including signing our own players, and would have made it difficult to sign our own players (Bosa, Rivers, ...) in the near future. There were few OL who would have been improvements over the players we had.

We could have drafted them, but then there are the holes on D. We only get 7 draft picks per year, and not all of them are going to turn into starters right away.

It is making the best of a bad situation. The Chargers front office is gambling that we can get better overall if we fill the defensive holes and see if the younger, cheaper OL we already have can develop. Again, the OL may not have been a great group, but they did have their moments. We did address the major holes on D, and there is competition at every position that is not an established strength.

I agree with the front office to a point. We are better off with the strategy we took. It puts the best team on the field. I'm not going to take out a 2nd mortgage on my house to bet on the Chargers to win the SB or anything, but it is the best use of our resources. Will it be enough?????????? We will see.

If the OL doesn't develop, then, yeah, we have to gut the group and find new players. That probably means several new players via the draft.

IMV, the key point is that we have continuity at Oline coach.

It is inevitable that such clean prospects as Feeney and Lamp develop into solid contributors for our unit.

Posters are all over the map.

[Maniaque 6]

How about Ryan Schraeder ?
How much would it cost ?
Good move or not ?

[Topcat]

They are human beings, not sure things. Nothing with people are ever a sure thing.

It wasn't a straight "up" arrow. The OL didn't finish the season with as much of an improvement as they did mid-season because of who we played. Pitt, KC, Den, Baltimore (2x), NE..... those are some of the best DL in football. The OL got a lot better as the season went on before struggling against some of the best DL in football late. Tevi was getting his ass kicked in the 1st week vs KC, and it wasn't even close. They did get better. It's just not good enough.

The point that needs to be made is that this was a very bad group 2 years ago, and they got better this last season. It is not a done deal. The OL is not good enough. They have to get better.

The problem was that the Chargers had a lot of needs this offseason.

If we had gone out and just tried wholesale replacements for the OL, that would have meant that Adderley and Tillery would not be on our D, so we would have been trying on Addae, Phillon and Liuget to step up their games. Those are useful players, but all of them is about as good as they will get, and Addae was being played way out of position. There was never a way to add enough help to fill all the holes we had. So, the OL was not fixed, to give the young players that have not played a chance to develop.

I'm not thrilled with the idea. In a perfect world, I would have preferred to add players to at least compete against Tevi, Feeney and Schofield, if not outright replace them. We didn't have the money in the salary cap to sign 3 players at $10-15 million per season to start on the OL, and that is assuming that we wouldn't have lost the bidding wars to get any of the top OL. That was our entire salary cap, including signing our own players, and would have made it difficult to sign our own players (Bosa, Rivers, ...) in the near future. There were few OL who would have been improvements over the players we had.

We could have drafted them, but then there are the holes on D. We only get 7 draft picks per year, and not all of them are going to turn into starters right away.

It is making the best of a bad situation. The Chargers front office is gambling that we can get better overall if we fill the defensive holes and see if the younger, cheaper OL we already have can develop. Again, the OL may not have been a great group, but they did have their moments. We did address the major holes on D, and there is competition at every position that is not an established strength.

I agree with the front office to a point. We are better off with the strategy we took. It puts the best team on the field. I'm not going to take out a 2nd mortgage on my house to bet on the Chargers to win the SB or anything, but it is the best use of our resources. Will it be enough?????????? We will see.

If the OL doesn't develop, then, yeah, we have to gut the group and find new players. That probably means several new players via the draft.

The draft board really dictated things once again. Who can argue with the selections of Tillery and Adderley at 1-2? And Pipkins looks promising...a bit of a project, but has all the tools to excel at OT...TT has learned to draft smart and quit reaching like he did in his early years...

[Steve]

How about Ryan Schraeder ?
How much would it cost ?
Good move or not ?

Schraeder was an All-Pro in 2015, and still a decent player in 2016, He has not played all that well since, so it may be a bit of a scheme fit since 2016 was the last year that Shannahan was the OC in Atlanta (although technically they didn't change the offensive system). His performance last year was particularly bad late in the year, and he got benched. There was interest in him between Hou and Minn, both teams a bit desperate for help, but neither signed him.

He is a FA right now, but will probably sign in TC once teams get a better feel for things and injuries start to happen.

The other "name" player left at OT is Jeremy Parnell. He is a former starter for the Cowboys and Jags, and has been solid at times at RT. He got some attention because he got a somewhat better PFF grade than Tevi, although the difference between them is that Parnell is 32 and has a lot of experience, and Tevi is a coming off his 1st year as a starter after being drafted as a developmental project. Parnell is never going to be anything more than a stop gap player, while guys like Tevi and Pipkins are both young guys who will get better.

My real point is that FA got simply stupid money for very average players. Teams are reaching and overpaying OL. Really overpaying. Really, really, really overpaying. And doing it with guys who are not very good. (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/offensive-line/)

This years draft had some good prospects, but not necessarily guys I would want to throw into the starting lineup right away. That is not where the talent in the draft was, and we got players who can help now with our picks, not guys who will take a year or two to contribute. We did draft Pipkins, but he is going to need some work. The key thing is we didn't draft with an eye to the future as much as strike a balance between players like Tillery and Adderley, who should both play a role immediately, even if they don't win the starting job (and both should be able to compete and win the jobs).

I could see next year, OL being the big area of need in the draft. I can also see the next years draft not really having any major needs, or if we do, those being caused by FA losses.

[Topcat]

Schraeder was an All-Pro in 2015, and still a decent player in 2016, He has not played all that well since, so it may be a bit of a scheme fit since 2016 was the last year that Shannahan was the OC in Atlanta (although technically they didn't change the offensive system). His performance last year was particularly bad late in the year, and he got benched. There was interest in him between Hou and Minn, both teams a bit desperate for help, but neither signed him.

He is a FA right now, but will probably sign in TC once teams get a better feel for things and injuries start to happen.

The other "name" player left at OT is Jeremy Parnell. He is a former starter for the Cowboys and Jags, and has been solid at times at RT. He got some attention because he got a somewhat better PFF grade than Tevi, although the difference between them is that Parnell is 32 and has a lot of experience, and Tevi is a coming off his 1st year as a starter after being drafted as a developmental project. Parnell is never going to be anything more than a stop gap player, while guys like Tevi and Pipkins are both young guys who will get better.

My real point is that FA got simply stupid money for very average players. Teams are reaching and overpaying OL. Really overpaying. Really, really, really overpaying. And doing it with guys who are not very good. (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/offensive-line/)

This years draft had some good prospects, but not necessarily guys I would want to throw into the starting lineup right away. That is not where the talent in the draft was, and we got players who can help now with our picks, not guys who will take a year or two to contribute. We did draft Pipkins, but he is going to need some work. The key thing is we didn't draft with an eye to the future as much as strike a balance between players like Tillery and Adderley, who should both play a role immediately, even if they don't win the starting job (and both should be able to compete and win the jobs).

I could see next year, OL being the big area of need in the draft. I can also see the next years draft not really having any major needs, or if we do, those being caused by FA losses.

Yep. Overpaying O linemen...like Franklin's $36 mil deal and he was gone after two years...ouch...

[Steve]

What can I say, we were trend setters.

FA is not an effective way of getting players to begin with. The big money guys don't work out that often, and even some of the middle and low tier ones don't work out as often as they should.

The big issue I have with us signing big money FA is that if they don't work out, we are stuck with them for a couple of years before we can release them. Now, many of this years FA have team friendly 1st seasons, but it is still going to hurt down the road. We have a lot of our own FA, and every dollar we spend now is money we could be using to sign those players. We can either extend some of them now (Rivers?) or simply not spend it now, and roll the cap space over to next season and use it to sign someone then.

Add in the wasted roster space on a team that will be forced to release decent players, plus the fact that it is very hard to not pencil a big money FA into a starting spot, so it ruins the competition. As much as so many of us are not satisfied with Tevi, if he underperforms next year, Scott, Lamp and even Pipkins would all (potentially) get a shot at replacing him. If we had signed Jawuan James (RT the Broncos signed) his cap # this season is $8 million per year, but if they are forced to cut him (June 1st cut) it will cost them $18 mill this season and $13 mill next season. Since they only have $5 mill in cap space this year, they cannot cut him, and that pretty much forces him to play. (https://overthecap.com/player/jawuan-james/2958/).

If they were getting the 2nd best RT in football, it might be worth it, but is Jawaun James anywhere near that? Is Trent Brown the best RT?

[Topcat]

What can I say, we were trend setters.

FA is not an effective way of getting players to begin with. The big money guys don't work out that often, and even some of the middle and low tier ones don't work out as often as they should.

The big issue I have with us signing big money FA is that if they don't work out, we are stuck with them for a couple of years before we can release them. Now, many of this years FA have team friendly 1st seasons, but it is still going to hurt down the road. We have a lot of our own FA, and every dollar we spend now is money we could be using to sign those players. We can either extend some of them now (Rivers?) or simply not spend it now, and roll the cap space over to next season and use it to sign someone then.

Add in the wasted roster space on a team that will be forced to release decent players, plus the fact that it is very hard to not pencil a big money FA into a starting spot, so it ruins the competition. As much as so many of us are not satisfied with Tevi, if he underperforms next year, Scott, Lamp and even Pipkins would all (potentially) get a shot at replacing him. If we had signed Jawuan James (RT the Broncos signed) his cap # this season is $8 million per year, but if they are forced to cut him (June 1st cut) it will cost them $18 mill this season and $13 mill next season. Since they only have $5 mill in cap space this year, they cannot cut him, and that pretty much forces him to play. (https://overthecap.com/player/jawuan-james/2958/).

If they were getting the 2nd best RT in football, it might be worth it, but is Jawaun James anywhere near that? Is Trent Brown the best RT?

James allowed 5 sacks last year...not exactly stellar...agree with u on FA's...we need to be very careful not to pull another Franklin...

[wu-dai clan]

I withhold any negative comments about the Donkey's Oline.

They added James and Dalton Risner and Mike Munchak. Rookie Pro Bowler Philip Lindsay is a major threat.

Re the Raiders, they added Trent Brown plus wild cards Tyler Roemer & Ritchie Incognito. I project their crew blocking for Josh Jacobs to yield a serious OROY candidate.

2019 AFCW = four team race.

[like54ninjas]

This is far more worrisome than MGIII.......
LOS ANGELES CHARGERS Russell Okung Might Miss Chargers Training Camp with 'Serious Medical Issue'

ROB GOLDBERGJULY 24, 2019


Gene J. Puskar/Associated Press
Los Angeles Chargers offensive tackle Russell Okung dealt with a "pretty serious medical issue" last month but is "doing better," general manager Tom Telesco said Wednesday, per Daniel Popper of The Athletic.

The issue could cause him to miss all of training camp.

Okung missed the Chargers minicamp in June, and his timetable for a return was unknown at the time, per Eric Williams of ESPN.

According to Charean Williams of Pro Football Talk, right tackle Sam Tevi moved to the left side in Okung's absence while Trent Scott filled in at right tackle. The squad would presumably remain with this lineup as long as Okung is out, although rookie third-round pick Trey Pipkins could also enter the mix.

The Oklahoma State product hasn't had too much of a problem with injuries as of late, missing just two regular-season games over the past three seasons. He has also started all 118 games he has played in his NFLcareer after being selected sixth overall by the Seattle Seahawks in 2010.

The 31-year-old is heading into his third year with the Chargers, earning a Pro Bowl selection in 2017.

Okung was a key part of the team's offensive success last season, anchoring a line for a team that ranked in the top 10 in both rushing yards per attempt and sacks allowed.

An extended absence could be devastating for a team with high hopes going into 2019.