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Originally posted by Cdn Bolt
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Not seeing the fully healthy quote with either Popper or Williams. -
Texans traded their entire future for this year. If they win a Super Bowl this year then it paid off. Otherwise they got fleeced by the Dolphins. Also you do realize that the Patriots traded for the equivalent of Tevi and Drango right? If we had done that, they would just be scrubs according to some here.Originally posted by sufan144 View PostComment
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Well TT should have fixed the line in his tenure here instead of drafting mostly scrubs and his half decent attempt in free agency.Comment
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That is one thing we don't need around here is more O line scrubs.Originally posted by Xenos View PostComment
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Lamp was going to rotate w Feeney and Schofield when 'fully healthy'. Not sure what you mean.Originally posted by Xenos View PostComment
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You probably pegged it weeks ago Wu-dai.Originally posted by wu-dai clan View Post
Evan Silva announced our starting offensive line.
AL let him have the honors.
Do you not understand ?
What the hell is going on out there?
Vincent Thomas Lombardi
They want (semi)experienced guards next to Tevi & Scott. I am reading that they want to work Lamp into the starting lineup - rotating a bit for now, but i'm guessing he will be taking over a spot when Okung returns.Last edited by powderblueboy; 09-02-2019, 04:08 PM.Comment
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Only rotoworld mentioned the healthy part. Something that both beat writers never mentioned. I think he's fully healthy now and they are trying to get him every opportunity to win the job with the rotation part. Just like Tevi won the RT position after rotating with Barksdale.Originally posted by Cdn Bolt View PostComment
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Here's an idea. Let's go out poach some oline coaches / developers from other teams who are successful at it. That's where Spanos should try spending some extra Dinero.
Can't hurt at this point.Comment
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It all depends on the HC and who he wants. We had a decent OL coach in 2013, and he got scapegoated after 2015 by McCoy. I remember people in the old CMB forum blaming him for all the injuries to the OL in 2014 and 2015.Originally posted by SDBORN View PostComment
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All these analytics and how they grade OL is interesting to say the least. PFF currently has our OL ranked 29th. They were actually very encouraged by Forrest Lamp (based off of preseason play) and expect him to take a starting role because of injuries to someone else. Not sure how to take that. Would appreciate it if he just takes it from Schofield and call it a day.
My confusion with PFF is that I initially thought the 29th ranking was only because of pass protection. If you go by Footballoutsider QB and pressure in both 2017 and 2018, we're roughly ranked around the Twenties as well. I believe 20th in 2017 (even though we had the 3rd fewest sack at only 18), and 23rd in 2018 (they included 34 QBs for some reason). I believe PFF takes into account sacks and hits/pressure for pass protection, so there's not that big of a disparity.29. Los Angeles Chargers
We finally got an extended look at former second-round pick Forrest Lamp this preseason, and the results were encouraging. He only allowed two pressures on 103 pass-blocking snaps and earned an 86.1 pass-blocking grade. With the Chargers' history of injury luck, chances are he'll be on the field sooner than later.
However, if the PFF ranking is overall, then we should technically be higher according to Footballoutsider, which had us ranked #5 in run blocking by OL.
Needless to say, that is a much bigger disparity.
What does this all mean? Just that different sites have different grading system, and it's difficult to understand the methodology that they used and how sound it is. Maybe PFF just places more emphasis on pass blocking compared to run blocking?
On a side note, someone did an article ranking the OL coaches in the league currently. Thanks to Steve for bringing it to my attention. Apparently it goes back to 2004. Once again, not sure how sound the methodology is. There are some former Charger OL coach on there (Joe D, Hal Hunter, etc.). But the point is that Dante Scar is currently the best OL coach, and it's not even close. Thought the bolded part with Munchuk and Pat Meyers was interesting to say the least.
www.optimumscouting.com/news/who-has-the-juice-nfl-offensive-line-coaches
One of the most interesting coaching positions in sports is the offensive line coach. While the NFL has rallied around rules that have exploded passing efficiency since 2004, there is still little to no movement for the coaches who have hands-on roles with what amounts to half of a team's starters on the offensive side of the ball. Offensive coordinators are largely made up of former quarterbacks coaches. It seems like every year more of the NFL's head coaching positions are filled by former offensive coordinators...who were former quarterbacks coaches.
This leaves offensive line coaches in a weird spot. They are in charge of half of the offense. They coach the most expensive non-quarterbacks on the offense. Meanwhile, the linear path from quarterbacks coach to offensive coordinator to head coach keeps everyone else in pretty stagnant positions. The difference? Other positional coaches do not coach half of a team on the field.
Something I have always wondered was how much an offensive line coach like Dante Scarnecchia, who first took over as New England's offensive line coach from 1999 to 2013 and came back for a second stint starting in 2016, really mattered in the context of the Bill Belichick era. Is he third most valuable guy behind Belichick and Tom Brady? It is hard to root that in something tangible when individual stats for offensive linemen are not tracked on a league page. People talk about offensive line coaches mattering, more so than other positional coaches at the NFL level, but I have never seen it quantified before.
In an attempt to do so, I tracked every current NFL offensive line coach's resume dating back to 2004, when we entered a pass-friendly era. What I tracked was two things: Sack Value and TFL Value for individual teams in individual seasons.
Sack Value: (((Team sacks given up/Team total pass plays)-(NFL sacks given up/NFL total pass plays))*Team total pass plays)*-1
TFL Value: (((Team tackles for a loss given up/Team total run plays)-(NFL total tackles for a loss given up/NFL total run plays))*Team total run plays)*-1
I treated tackles at the line as tackles for a loss with the idea being that if a back did not get momentum to push even a yard, there was likely to be penetration caused by an offensive lineman. I also excluded kneel downs from the data sample.
If there are any easy counting stats that could be attributed (and easily accessed) to the performance of offensive linemen, it would be sacks and TFLs. The value system adjusts for what the NFL average in the stat was in a given year, giving it an era adjustment for rule changes, and attributes a plus-minus number that is tangible.
Examples: +5 Sack Value means a team prevented five sacks better than the NFL average. -3 TFL Value means a team allowed three TFLs worse than the NFL average.
From there, you match current offensive line coaches to teams which they had qualifying coaching roles for (offensive line coach, offensive coordinator and head coach) and BOOM you find the value of offensive lines while these coaches have been in roles to heavily-influence them. From there, we can try to answer questions like "How good is Dante Scarnecchia?"
Results:
These are the numbers updated through Week 14 of the 2018 NFL season. As you can see, Scarnecchia really does matter more than any other offensive line coach in the NFL. His offensive linemen have collectively taken away 111 sacks relative to the NFL average, about as good as a Hall of Fame pass-rusher, and he ranks first in the NFL among offensive line coaches with a +121 TFL Value.
Behind Scarnecchia are three other offensive line coaches who have separated themselves from the pack: Dan Roushar of New Orleans, Mike Munchak of Pittsburgh and Bill Callahan of Washington. Munchak and Callahan are long-time NFL coaches who even earned head coaching jobs in the past while Roushar, ranked third on the list, has only been an NFL offensive line coach for three seasons. If there is anyone tabbed to be "The Next Scarnecchia" it is Roushar.
Some coaches, like Kansas City's Andy Heck, Houston's Mike Devlin, Carolina's John Matsko and Oakland's Tom Cable, are historically good in TFL Value but historically poor in Sack Value. Others, like Munchak and the Chargers' Pat Meyer, are historically good in Sack Value but historically poor in TFL Value.
In terms of career resumes, at least from 2004 on, the three most costly current offensive line coaches are Cable, Tampa Bay's George Warhop and Detroit's Jeff Davidson...and by a pretty good margin. What is interesting is that Mike Solari, who has really turned around the Seahawks' offensive line, ranks 31st out of 34 offensive line coaches in career resume. The difference? Cable is more than twice as costly.
As we approach hire-fire season, keep this list of names in mind. Davidson is coming to town? Add some more sacks to the total. Need a head coach? Roushar might be a sneaky candidate to get a look based off of what Munchak and Callahan have done to get head jobs.Comment
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Something tells me Lynn is not the kind of coach to make these types of changes (let go of familiarity) . Continuity is key with him it seems, whatever that may bring.Originally posted by Xenos View PostComment
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Some may call it continuity, I think it's more just being stubborn in the face of reason and I think it could end up being his downfall. We have all fully felt the utter and complete waste of multiple players careers for the sake of continuity.Originally posted by SDBORN View PostComment
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