Offensive Line Discussion

[Steve]

3 Qbs is a luxury not a need but we'll leave that

I don't care how you spin it but all he had to have was a swing tackle backup $2-3M/yr max player. Like what every other team seems to have so the next LT man up isn't some UDFA scrub w no exp.

That's still BULLSHIT. BAckup signed as FA are not costing $2-3 million. Your opinion is based on ignorance.

Ty Nsekhe signed a typical FA contract. He is 33, has never been a starter, likely to be the swing OT for Buffalo. His cap # is $5 mil per season, with a $3 mil bonus. He left some money on the table to get a chance to compete for a starting OT job. Many other players got north of that. Some a lot north of that.

There are cheaper OL available, they are in the same caliber as the players we have. Except much older. And have already reached their potential. At least the OL we have who are struggling are going to improve some this year. Time will tell if it is enough.

[Cdn Bolt]

If you can have only experienced quality backups, how do you develop talent?

Other teams have a decent swing tackle Not sure why this is such a foreign concept .

[Cdn Bolt]

That's still BULLSHIT. BAckup signed as FA are not costing $2-3 million. Your opinion is based on ignorance.

Ty Nsekhe signed a typical FA contract. He is 33, has never been a starter, likely to be the swing OT for Buffalo. His cap # is $5 mil per season, with a $3 mil bonus. He left some money on the table to get a chance to compete for a starting OT job. Many other players got north of that. Some a lot north of that.

There are cheaper OL available, they are in the same caliber as the players we have. Except much older. And have already reached their potential. At least the OL we have who are struggling are going to improve some this year. Time will tell if it is enough.

So is yours. Plug in $5M I don't give a shit. You are arguing that Telesco could not sign a backup swing tackle like what every other decent team seems to have for whatever the cost is. Same that Trent Scott is the best we could do as a backup. That is ignorance.

[Budsman]

I'm a process guy. For the Chargers to win consistently, they need to find a sucessful "formula" for lack of a better term. OL is important, but so is not letting people run rampant in the secondary. So is having a TE on 3rd down to convert. So is having a RB who gets the extra yards on 2nd and 6. There are a lot of things that go into winning championships. TT has been very good at building a roster. He has had relatively little bad luck via draft picks, and a large percentage of it has come on the OL.

I think most fans are just pissed because they want the OL to be better. I do too. But not at the expense of somewhere else. That is just trading problems.

Maybe it is because I have to make so many predictions at work, but it is really hard to make forecasts of what will happen in the future and do it without a crystal ball. I understand the need to have top notch OL or DL. Every year I have come out of the draft looking at TT picks and thinking it looks pretty good. We drafted Feeney and Lamp pretty high, and Tevi got a lot better over the course of the season. I'm not saying it's not important, but I agree with a lot of the pick by pick decisions. I also am buying into the don't draft for need thing. When TT reaches for FA, he misses badly. I don't think his draft is going to be that much different.

I find the OL argument disingenuous. Unless you are going to go player by player, and review the UDFA lists, it is hard to say we should have taken an OL here instead of Bosa or this OL in place of James and think we will necessarily be better off.

When it comes down to it, I thought the roster was a complete gut job when we hired Lynn (close to it anyway). We got back on top in basically 1 season. We are still in the rebuilding mode and the OL is the last area, with the possible exception of QB. A lot of teams do have championships with less talented OL.

My solution is to trade for Williams. It wouldn't be my first choice, but it is the only choice available. We don't know if we are going to get Okung back, for what is a complete fluke of a problem for NFL players. Williams is a top-notch player, and he is available. The Redskins are trying to talk up the price of the trade with that phony story about NE and the 1st round pick, but it isn't going to take a 1st round pick Probably more like a 3rd or 4th, maybe less than that. That fills an OL position of need, even if Okung comes back.

It's interesting to me that if you do a lot of predicting at work you wouldn't see that one of the best predictors of success for an nfl franchise is line play. A mediocre qb or be can look good behind a dominant line.

To say say it's impossible to look back and say pick by pick what should have happens is stretching a bit. Let's not go back that far, let's look at this year. Tevi picked it up from unplayable to awful, but we still needed tackle help and everyone who knows football and watched our team agreed, when draft pundits put OL at the top of our list of needs, it wasn't a secret.

I agree with you though on the only thing left to do. We need to trade for Williams to try and save our season. If Okung comes back then we have the best tackle duo in the league and if he doesn't then we can transition. It allows us to develop Pip, and protect PRs blind side.

[Budsman]

So is yours. Plug in $5M I don't give a shit. You are arguing like a fool that Telesco could not sign a backup swing tackle like what every other decent team seems to have for whatever the cost is. You are also a fool if you think Trent Scott is the best we could do as a backup LT

I'm not going to say anyone is a fool since you two are probably in a pissing contest, but as much as I like the safety blanket of Tyrod Taylor, that money could have been used towards a backup ol that can actually push for playing time at RT

[Budsman]

What would the DT and LB spots be looking like if we had ignored them in the draft and FA?

There were not enough resources (FA money and draft picks) to address every need.

Tell me we could live with last years LB corp and last years DT and still be a championship quality roster even with a solid OL????

We could. Offense wins championships in today's nfl and our defense even with mediocre dt and lb play is middle of the pack.

[blueman]

I'm not going to say anyone is a fool since you two are probably in a pissing contest, but as much as I like the safety blanket of Tyrod Taylor, that money could have been used towards a backup ol that can actually push for playing time at RT

[Xenos]

I don't think we have ever had an OL better than middle of the pack since Telesco arrived here in 2013. If it is a 'gut' job it was his own team that he was gutting.

Telesco came from the IND under Bill Polian who was the godfather of building shitty lines. He stocked the O w #1 pick skill players (Anthony Gonzalez, Dallas Clark , Reggie Wayne , Joseph Addae, Edgerrin James, Donald Brown etc) for Manning and went on the cheap on the OL and other areas.

Telesco is from the same mold. We have used a #1 for a WR, RB and a #2 for a TE. They also got Keenan Allen w a #3. Brought in Travis Benjamin. Meanwhile they have not used a high draft pick for a LT yet. Russel Okung is good but there was noone behind him and now we are screwed.

You're right about not getting an LT in the first two rounds, but you're wrong about TT being in the same mold. We used a first for an RT, a 2nd for guard, a 3rd for a guard/center/future LT, a 5th for a center, and some later round tackles (that's more than AJ ever did in the draft). We also paid a lot in FA for a former pro bowl guard that didn't work out (Franklin), extended a good LT in Dunlap whose career got derailed by injuries, and brought in a pro bowl center. At the end of the day, it's not that TT hadn't tried to fix the OL, it's that despite his investments both through the draft and FA, he hasn't produced a great OL yet. And while this OL can improve, it also was responsible for a top 5 offense last year.

[Budsman]

You forgot a huuuuuge part of that equation, Russell Okung. Now Tevi is likely at LT and Rivers won't be able to trust his blind side. Huuuuuuge difference, about as big as that bridge you can keep
. :cheers:

[Budsman]

You're right about not getting an LT in the first two rounds, but you're wrong about TT being in the same mold. We used a first for an RT, a 2nd for guard, a 3rd for a guard/center/future LT, a 5th for a center, and some later round tackles (that's more than AJ ever did in the draft). We also paid a lot in FA for a former pro bowl guard that didn't work out (Franklin), extended a good LT in Dunlap whose career got derailed by injuries, and brought in a pro bowl center. At the end of the day, it's not that TT hadn't tried to fix the OL, it's that despite his investments both through the draft and FA, he hasn't produced a great OL yet. And while this OL can improve, it also was responsible for a top 5 offense last year.

[Xenos]

Wow. Just reading our line was ranked 29th by PFF even before Okung was hurt. I don't agree w that ranking but w Okung out we definitely are at or near the bottom now. Not sure if someone posted this here already but here it is https://www.pff.com/news/pro-nfl-off...-entering-2019

Telesco has left this too late already but he needs to get in a quality backup LT now via trade or someone's cuts. If he doesn't and the OL costs us wins this season there should be a serious review of his performance at GM. If I was River's I would be pissed having to play behind this OL.

That's PFF's projections. We'll see if they are accurate. Last year, we were ranked differently by Footballoutsider: #5 in run blocking, while #13 in pass protection.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol/2018

[Xenos]

The only one currently missing is Okung. And while that is disappointing, LT matters less for a QB like Rivers than IOL. As for getting it done or not, it's not a simple yes or no since an OL can be middle of the pack as well but continue to show improvement (or regress). Part of it is talent obviously, but the other is scheme and coaching.