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[Bolt4Knob]

Just to follow-up with Riverwalk and the respect to the defense - it is also older than last year

The four main free agents signed on defense are older than last year -- Jefferson Mack, Perryman and Tomlinson will all be older this year than Jefferson, Mack, Perryman and Hand last year. Oh yeah, they kept Dupree. Now I didn't mind not paying Oweh 96/4 but there is also players younger to sign

Again, signing one year older vets - thats fine post draft, pre-training camp when you are filling out the roster. But his main defensive signings were older dudes on one year contracts. I was fine with Mack. Totally get Tomlinson in a head to head with Hand but doesn't mean I wouldn't have paid Hand 3m bucks to have another $4m to spend elsewhere -like IMPROVING another position substantively not just for this year but future years. Like -hey sign a guy to a 3 y ear contract that is like 25-27 years old.

The data has shown - older rosters do not win historically. The less snaps older players play (excluding K, P, LS and QB) -- the better

Devin Lloyd signed for 45/5 -- that wasn't that bad and he would have improved the defense. Maybe a better safety than Jefferson. I appreciate what he did last year but if you can get better - get better.

[Topcat]

And this is why I give Joe Hortz a D this off-season with $100m of cap space
He needed to do more. And yes, I get that there is still the draft and post draft free agents. But the pre-draft free agents are better and might be worth the cost.
The defense is not better at this point. I know he can draft Edge but how does bringing back guys like Perryman and Jefferson, even to a degree an older Tomlinson make the team BETTER. Treading water at best

I wouldn't give Trader Joe a D...I'm thinking more it's an incomplete...yes, we have a lot of cap space and he could have signed 1-2 more high-priced FA's...but...I think he's a bit gunshy about throwing big bucks around, especially after the Becton debacle...other FA fails included Conklin and Chark...then there was the whole Najee Harris freak accident debacle...out D FA signings have turned out better...Trader Joe has chosen to build a lot thru the draft, and sign FA's to short term deals while limiting our exposure to cap issues...If we can draft a solid G in round 1-2, I'll give him a B, with the chance to upgrade that grade to a B+ or A-, depending on how the season goes...

[Boltjolt]

The reason you get confused about the age thing is you are taking words in one context and applying them to another context

In free agency, that would be the time pre-draft, I don't think the plan should be to sign a bunch of older guys to one year deals. Now post-draft, meaning AFTER the draft when all the really good players are gone - you take what you can get.

You don't like Ossai - I get it. You really didn't like anybody or didn't want to pay them with your imaginary salary cap of valuing a player at 6m when the market is 10m. Fine, thats on you

As for Allen - I know its personal for you. You like him. You want him to be a Chargers for life. Thats fine. He's your boy and I hurt your feelings obviously as you still bring up every chance you can, years later.
That said if you can't tell the difference between a 35 year old Mack and a 33 year old Allen - thats not on me - thats just overvaluing Slayer for what he TRULY brings to the team. If Tyler Shoon is even willing to move on from Allen - and the rest of the league sure isn't knocking on his door - -you might need to let that one go.

Just want to add that you have zero idea who has called his agent. Im sure he has got calls and you well know he isnt interested in going elsewhere. You once said if a team calls and offers him a huge bag, he will go. Whats a huge bag? He went to Chicago to collect his 24 mil. Didnt want to go back and no team is going to offer him 20 mil now. He played for us for 5-6 mil? Whats that tell you? Maybe , maybe not a team offered 10. Neither of us know that.

I know you will say that it means nobody made him an offer but thats just your blindness talking. If NFL CBs are saying he still has it, the league knows it too. He wants to stay home with his family.

You ever had to work away from yours? ive done it many times ....for months at a time and on and off for years. His family did not move to Chicago with him. Kids stayed in school in LA for his 1 year stint he knew it would be.

It wont hurt my feelings if he isnt here this season but again if they can still play and contribute i like to see our homegrown star players stay and he can still contribute.
What was Seattle thinking signing Cooper Kupp to a three year deal

[Boltjolt]

You’re kidding right?

Linderbaum, Cousins, Paye, Nailor, Olubi, Hayward, etc…. Irrespective of cost…I would be giving Joe high fives for those additions.

The Raiders needed an extraordinary rebuild, but with that kickstart in free agency and 11 picks awaiting in the draft, they are poised for one of the most dramatic turnarounds in the history of the NFL. Some would even say, like something that’s never been seen before.

Paye is Meh....i made a rhymm lol. Was signed to start thus the 48 mil but Crosby hadnt failed his physical yet so now they have a 48 mil depth guy. Stats wise he is equal to Oweh but Oweh got overpaid and making twice that.
Cousins is meh but sure better than O'Connel and will be better than Mendoza year one....maybe, he is 37.
Nailer is a #3 WR...their whole WR room right now are #3 WRs.
Hayward is a FB.....i guess they plan on running the tush push? That was his specialty at Pitt.
Traded for Taron Johnson who was ranked 66th of 114 CBs.
Olubi? Is that a good singing in your book? STs, depth LB......dont move the needle for me.

Now they did sign some real good players too. One i liked alot back in his draft but he has been injury prone in the NFL (Dean). I like Quay Walker, and of course Linderbaum and they retained Koonce.

We'll see what they add in the draft. Surely a WR or two

[Boltjolt]

Just to follow-up with Riverwalk and the respect to the defense - it is also older than last year

The four main free agents signed on defense are older than last year -- Jefferson Mack, Perryman and Tomlinson will all be older this year than Jefferson, Mack, Perryman and Hand last year. Oh yeah, they kept Dupree. Now I didn't mind not paying Oweh 96/4 but there is also players younger to sign

Again, signing one year older vets - thats fine post draft, pre-training camp when you are filling out the roster. But his main defensive signings were older dudes on one year contracts. I was fine with Mack. Totally get Tomlinson in a head to head with Hand but doesn't mean I wouldn't have paid Hand 3m bucks to have another $4m to spend elsewhere -like IMPROVING another position substantively not just for this year but future years. Like -hey sign a guy to a 3 y ear contract that is like 25-27 years old.

The data has shown - older rosters do not win historically. The less snaps older players play (excluding K, P, LS and QB) -- the better

Devin Lloyd signed for 45/5 -- that wasn't that bad and he would have improved the defense. Maybe a better safety than Jefferson. I appreciate what he did last year but if you can get better - get better.

Like Cam Jordon? Sorry, dont mean to harp on it again but its just bizarre. You are weird about the age of our guys but welcome older guys from elsewhere. Jordon, Zeitler 36, Seumalo is 33, Bitonio is 34. You mentioned ALL these guys for us to sign. How does that make sense to you? Its not OK in your view for Hortiz to do that but in your head it fine to get other older guys?

Perryman problem isnt age, its he is always injured and misses games. Mack still playing well and we saw that when he missed those 4 games what a diff it was.

[Bolt4Knob]

Topcat Incomplete is fair.

My big thing about free agency is I see a young core group of players
Herbert, Alt, Slater, Ladd, Tuli, Henley, Tarheed or Hart, maybe Mickens, Hampton, Vidal QJ, Gadsden, Harris
add to that core group with a player that fits the timeline and not one year contracts to be right back where he is
and you mentioned build through the draft - he has 5 picks -- so this was the year to push the cap space - to me

End of the day, his record will be his record.

[Boltnut]

IMO, this draft will be about defense (plus an IOL good enough to start @LG).

Oweh was a splash last season. But he was not a complete edge player... he wasn't a guy that was going to hold the edge against the run. IMO, we'll get a complete edge player in the 1st or 2nd round. Akheem Mesidor or Derrick Moore.

I liked the Da'Shawn Hand signing last year... but his run defense was not Dalvin Tomlinson good. I'm sure O'Leary requested another run stopper to go with Caldwell and Tart. They may be looking for another 3-tech to backup an ascending Eboigbe in the draft... 3rd or 4th round prospect.

I'm not freaking out @ILB. I believe that Colson is still the plan. Injuries have derailed what should have been an excellent pick. Bringing Denzell back is pure insurance. It would be a waste of draft capital to draft Colson's replacement, IMO.

No one really gives the CB enough consideration. Donte Jackson was a great free agent signing... but another premium year probably makes him too expensive to re-sign next off-season. O'Leary is a secondary coach. IMO, he'll want a quality CB to pair with Jackson (and replace Jackson in 2027). I think he will also want some more depth at safety... knowing that DJ will be playing mostly Big Nickel.

A defensive draft will improve our defense from 2025. In most of my mocks, BPA is a defensive player.

1st: Edge Akheem Mesidor. BPA
2nd: CB Chris Johnson/Brandon Cisse/Keionte Scott... one of these guys will slip. BPA.
3rd: This is where you find your LG starter. Connor Lew may be here... and I've always liked Brian Parker.
4th: Probably find a nice 3-tech here. Rayshawn Benny, Chris McClellan, Kaleb Proctor, Wu's M'ba...
6th: Probably find a nice safety depth here. Jaylen Husky, Louis Moore, Wydette Willians, Jaylen Catalon...

[YAC]

The data has shown - older rosters do not win historically. The less snaps older players play (excluding K, P, LS and QB) -- the better

We are seeing some errant stuff getting casually thrown around the forum today for some reason. The data does *not* show this.

Older rosters absolutely have won. The 2020 Buccaneers were old almost everywhere and won the Super Bowl. The late-2010s Saints were consistently among the oldest teams and were elite. The recent 49ers and Rams have often leaned older. The 2021 Rams in particular were very veteran-heavy and won it all.

If you want to modify and soften your claim, I'll have no complaint. How about this instead: "Younger rosters generally have slightly better odds, though veteran-heavy teams absolutely still can contend and win it all."

(I do agree with you on Keenan, BTW)

[wu-dai clan]

IMO, this draft will be about defense (plus an IOL good enough to start @LG).

Oweh was a splash last season. But he was not a complete edge player... he wasn't a guy that was going to hold the edge against the run. IMO, we'll get a complete edge player in the 1st or 2nd round. Akheem Mesidor or Derrick Moore.

I liked the Da'Shawn Hand signing last year... but his run defense was not Dalvin Tomlinson good. I'm sure O'Leary requested another run stopper to go with Caldwell and Tart. They may be looking for another 3-tech to backup an ascending Eboigbe in the draft... 3rd or 4th round prospect.

I'm not freaking out @ILB. I believe that Colson is still the plan. Injuries have derailed what should have been an excellent pick. Bringing Denzell back is pure insurance. It would be a waste of draft capital to draft Colson's replacement, IMO.

No one really gives the CB enough consideration. Donte Jackson was a great free agent signing... but another premium year probably makes him too expensive to re-sign next off-season. O'Leary is a secondary coach. IMO, he'll want a quality CB to pair with Jackson (and replace Jackson in 2027). I think he will also want some more depth at safety... knowing that DJ will be playing mostly Big Nickel.

A defensive draft will improve our defense from 2025. In most of my mocks, BPA is a defensive player.

1st: Edge Akheem Mesidor. BPA
2nd: CB Chris Johnson/Brandon Cisse/Keionte Scott... one of these guys will slip. BPA.
3rd: This is where you find your LG starter. Connor Lew may be here... and I've always liked Brian Parker.
4th: Probably find a nice 3-tech here. Rayshawn Benny, Chris McClellan, Kaleb Proctor, Wu's M'ba...
6th: Probably find a nice safety depth here. Jaylen Husky, Louis Moore, Wydette Willians, Jaylen Catalon...

Good points. Mesidor has an array of moves. Moore speed to power.

M'ba is a wildcard, ceiling, traits prospect. Your guys are vlean.

I am a status quo dude at DB. Continuity of coverage responsibilities.

[YAC]

I believe that Colson is still the plan.

I'd love to believe that, but I'm dubious. Please support the claim. Why?

Give me a boost, Nutty, sincerely, because I can't think of one single reason for optimism w/the guy.

[Bolt4Knob]

We are seeing some errant stuff getting casually thrown around the forum today for some reason. The data does *not* show this.

Older rosters absolutely have won. The 2020 Buccaneers were old almost everywhere and won the Super Bowl. The late-2010s Saints were consistently among the oldest teams and were elite. The recent 49ers and Rams have often leaned older. The 2021 Rams in particular were very veteran-heavy and won it all.

If you want to modify and soften your claim, I'll have no complaint. How about this instead: "Younger rosters generally have slightly better odds, though veteran-heavy teams absolutely still can contend and win it all."

(I do agree with you on Keenan, BTW)

That is what I mean when I said historically. Maybe I should have added "historically on average". Doesn't mean there aren't one offs. I think Tampa with Brady is an excellent example you cite. JasonOTC has done really good work on this through the years about the age of players and snaps taken.

Look at Washington last year - they had a rookie QB and they went old. REALLY old for 2025 (Ertz, Deebo, Bobby Wagner). Made no sense when you had Daniels for 3 more years on his rookie deal - build around those y ears They were 8/10s of a year older than the team 31st oldest team. This year, Peters has gone much younger if you look at the free agents the Commandos signed and none of those three players will be back.

So you bring up good examples but by and large, the sweet spot for NFL players is that 25-29 range - the second contract in the NFL. There are position outliers too - LS, P, K and even IOL. But other positions - RB and CB, WR too a degree, Safety even. Harrison Smiths of the world are not the norm.

[CanadianBoltFan]

Rashee Rice off the hook for any NFL discipline. That is good for Chiefs, they will have him all year