Justin Herbert - Bolts Franchise QB Official Discussion

[Critty]

I disagree with your list.

First of all I'd like to see Herbert with no rib issues which I believe he had all year. Perhaps even being more sore in some weeks as he took some hits.

Second Lamar isn't top 10 in my book. He can run and that's what he does best. He can't throw very well. He had his 1 magic year, hasn't come close since. His own team may not resign him. Flacco had his 1 magic year as well. Then, mediocre.

And I'm not sure Lawrence is in that top group yet. Sure he came back to beat us but Wilson looked good last week for a change as well. And Lawrence threw 4 picks. Almost 5. We choked.

And Allen though a good one, he threw a lot of INTs this season but yes I'd put him on that list.
Just saying I think if he isn't injured, Herbert has a better season and is top 5.

I think winning matters.

Herbert and Lawrence both missed playoff their rookie seasons.

Both had coach changes going into year 2.

Both had a win and your in game to finish the season in year 2.

Lawrence won that game. Herbert did not.

Then Lawrence won a playoff game in year 2.
He did respond with 4TDs after a poor first half of interception and most important lead the game clincher drive. Herbert had plenty of possession in 2nd half. Saying the OC was so horrible that his play calling alone cause the 3pt performance takes way too much accountability away from the players playing the game.
Jax are on a 6 game wins streak.

So my rating of QBs put Lawrence ahead of Herbert. But it just my opinion. I still think Chargers can win a Superbowl with a top 10 QB. They don't need a top 5. I still think defense wins championships..and special teams matters as well. The Chargers defense didn't force a single punt in 2nd half yesterday and the FG kicker missed a very makeable 40yd try.

It was a team loss with Bosa mental errors leading the way.

[DerwinBosa]

Time will tell.

I'm not feeling it. Watching Allen and Burrow the day after really presents a nice contrast.

H Happy to be wrong

Josh Allen was awful in his first playoff game, his second year in 2019, and he had Brian Daboll as his offensive coordinator. The Bills had a similar collapse against the Houston Texans. Allen was way worse in that game than Herbert was last night.

[Florida fan]

I think winning matters.

Herbert and Lawrence both missed playoff their rookie seasons.

Both had coach changes going into year 2.

Both had a win and your in game to finish the season in year 2.

Lawrence won that game. Herbert did not.

Then Lawrence won a playoff game in year 2.
He did respond with 4TDs after a poor first half of interception and most important lead the game clincher drive. Herbert had plenty of possession in 2nd half. Saying the OC was so horrible that his play calling alone cause the 3pt performance takes way too much accountability away from the players playing the game.
Jax are on a 6 game wins streak.

So my rating of QBs put Lawrence ahead of Herbert. But it just my opinion. I still think Chargers can win a Superbowl with a top 10 QB. They don't need a top 5. I still think defense wins championships..and special teams matters as well. The Chargers defense didn't force a single punt in 2nd half yesterday and the FG kicker missed a very makeable 40yd try.

It was a team loss with Bosa mental errors leading the way.

All good point about (Jags game) they wanted it more.

I disagree Chargers can win SB with The mental state of this team. Not to mention Andy Reid and Mahomes. They did not miss a beat with Hill Gone. They have Leaders like Kielce that could go to any team and Lead day one. We don’t.

[Boltx]

When Burrow said their window was "his whole career," I thought that was badass as hell.

Instead our QB refuses to take gameballs and our HC scrambles to pick up his players' gear when they throw a temper tantrum.

And we expect disciplined, tough leaders out this bunch? Just paints such a weak, beta picture all around.

[Critty]

It was a joke. We heard it with Rivers. Now we're hearing it with Herbert. This weekend's games, all playoff games, show how important the head coach is.

It happens it all sports.
There's great players that are top of the mountain players.
I think Herbert has all the tools to be great. I didn't see great in 2nd half yesterday. And I didn't see putting the performance solely on coaching as correct to me. Herbert can play better than that. And he needs to in moments like that. BTW I don't see Rivers losing that game yesterday even with the crappy coaches.

[DerwinBosa]

It happens it all sports.
There's great players that are top of the mountain players.
I think Herbert has all the tools to be great. I didn't see great in 2nd half yesterday. And I didn't see putting the performance solely on coaching as correct to me. Herbert can play better than that. And he needs to in moments like that. BTW I don't see Rivers losing that game yesterday even with the crappy coaches.

For years we had to listen to how Eli and Roethlisberger were better than Rivers. Eli had one playoff game in which he led the Giants' offense to more than 24 points. His defense held the Patriots to 17 and 14 points in two Super Bowls. Roethlisberger had the worst performance by a winning quarterback in a Super Bowl, and then in his second Super Bowl he benefited from James Harrison's 100-yard pick-6.

Tonight I'm watching Joe Burrow, whom I like, struggle through a fourth quarter, yet his team has taken the lead off a ridiculous 99-yard fumble recovery for a touchdown. Yet, if Cincinnati wins, the narrative tomorrow will be, "Burrow got it done. Herbert didn't."

I suppose it will never end until we win a Super Bowl.

[Critty]

So why are you spitballing unrealistic trades then? Justin is about as team player as they come but 1 playoff loss has you salivating at the idea of shipping him away and 'hoping' we get better? Get real Herbert is still the best player on this team and painting him as a barely Top 20 QB is stupid.

I didn't bring up trade others did and I post to say only 2 would even be worth it and would not happen. That doesn't make him 20th. I would have to say 19 players would be worth trading for to make him barley top 20.

[dmac_bolt]

I'm going to say my piece and stick with it. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. You can rub my face in it for eternity.

Sometime around 2010-2011 I saw the writing on the wall about Rivers - very good QB, but not one to prevent you from having losing seasons and certainly not one to propel you the stratosphere of the NFL.

Now football is a team sport and so much goes into winning and losing, but it ultimately comes down to QB play so much of the time.

I'm getting the same vibes from Herbert that I got from Rivers. And I'm already starting to see the same myriad of excuses (no OL, no weapons, bad coaching, etc).

I just get the feeling he's closer to a Dak Prescott or Jared Goff than Allen/Mahomes/Burrow. And I say this just as a fan who has been watching the NFL for 30 years not because this is some sort of amazing credential, but to say it's just one man's totally subjective take. And I've been both right and wrong about these things. But I just feel this in my football "Spidey senses," as silly as that sounds.

This is not to say we need to necessarily part ways with Herbert, because it's hard enough to find even an average QB in this league and he is certainly top 10-12 material. But I just don't see a killer, take the opposing team's soul, refuse-to-lose QB in him. And we need to be prepared to accept that.

I respect your right to your opinion.

I’ll ride tthru the Gates of Hell with Herbie. He IS the guy and all will see. That offensive shit show was not his fault yesterday in the 2nd half. If we’re going to bag any QB that misses 2 passes - you’ll never have a QB

[Boltx]

I respect your right to your opinion.

I’ll ride tthru the Gates of Hell with Herbie. He IS the guy and all will see. That offensive shit show was not his fault yesterday in the 2nd half. If we’re going to bag any QB that misses 2 passes - you’ll never have a QB

Not once did I advocate for parting ways with him

unless he decides to walk away early from football (a non-zero probability with him), he will be our QB for the foreseeable future.

I just don't think the overall results will be what people are hoping for.

[Critty]

For years we had to listen to how Eli and Roethlisberger were better than Rivers. Eli had one playoff game in which he led the Giants' offense to more than 24 points. His defense held the Patriots to 17 and 14 points in two Super Bowls. Roethlisberger had the worst performance by a winning quarterback in a Super Bowl, and then in his second Super Bowl he benefited from James Harrison's 100-yard pick-6.

Tonight I'm watching Joe Burrow, whom I like, struggle through a fourth quarter, yet his team has taken the lead off a ridiculous 99-yard fumble recovery for a touchdown. Yet, if Cincinnati wins, the narrative tomorrow will be, "Burrow got it done. Herbert didn't."

I suppose it will never end until we win a Super Bowl.

As it should.

[DerwinBosa]

As it should.

I don't agree, but we both want the same thing.

[Critty]

When Burrow said their window was "his whole career," I thought that was badass as hell.

Instead our QB refuses to take gameballs and our HC scrambles to pick up his players' gear when they throw a temper tantrum.

And we expect disciplined, tough leaders out this bunch? Just paints such a weak, beta picture all around.

I think Herbert can be good enough to win a Superbowl.
Bosa for me put himself on the trading block. They need the money to use on Herbert extension.