Welcome Kenneth Murray LB, Oklahoma

[TTThunder]

Coulda had Elway for that. FAIL.

I would have preferred Bruce Matthews, Darrell Green and Dan Marino...

Go Bolts!!!

[AK47]

I see the comparison with the measureables, but it is off because of the different positions. Irvin was/is a DE. Murray is a traditional read and react ILB. Irvin was OK as a LB, but nothing special. Murray is already better than Irvin as a LB unless everything I have seen is completely wrong. However, given his frame, there is no hope of playing Murray at DE (or LEO) and asking him to rush the passer and expecting him to hold up against a 350 lb OT.

The biggest problem I have with Murray being an impact player is that ILB is not an impact position. If NFL teams where running the ball lie they did in the 1970-'s and 1980's, where teams ran the ball 55% of the time, with really good teams running the ball closer to 60-40%, then LB would be a much bigger deal. Yes, someone needs to make the tackles, but even a so-so LB is going to make a lot of tackles if the DL is playing well in front of him, and even an elite LB is going to play poorly if the DL doesn't help cover him up so he can run to the ball.

Yes, Murray is fast and explosive, but even the best coverage LB in the league is only about as good in pass coverage as a pretty average DB, and Murray needs a lot of work in that area. LB simply don't make enough impact plays (TFL, sacks, int, FF … ) to be "impact" players.

Yes, they need to do the routine stuff well, but that is a TEAM effort. No single LB, no single DT, no single DE is going to fix our run down problems, which are more about perception than being a real problem anyway. It is going to take a group effort, and there is simply no way around that. It takes an entire front 8 (including the SS since we keep our SS in the box) to stop the run.

If there is one issue I have with Murray, I would like to see him do a better job of wrapping up and tackling. Again, a lot of college LB are kinda sloppy at tackling. But he is not going to knock as many guys and fumbles lose by just sticking his arm out as he did at OU. A big part of our problems on D are simply poor tackling (and shedding) fundamentals. Everyone on our D needs to get better at tackling. While that is always true, it is more true for the Chargers than for most teams. It is simply something that they should do EVERY day in practice, regular season, and offseason, walkthrough and full practice.

Pretty sure the Chargers don't expect him to contribute in coverage right away. The talented Charger secondary actually allows this kid to step in and contribute towards his bread/butter strengths which is simply go get the ball...well the person with ball at least. In 2019 we never really had that element. Mistackles, guys being out of position, tackles being broken, ect. We'll get more insight from Charger coaches as to what exactly they saw in this kid and how he could be leveraged. We traded up for this kid so I see the Chargers wanting to insert him day 1 if possible. Our history of LB injuries indicate this as well.

[Steve]

Pretty sure the Chargers don't expect him to contribute in coverage right away. The talented Charger secondary actually allows this kid to step in and contribute towards his bread/butter strengths which is simply go get the ball...well the person with ball at least. In 2019 we never really had that element. Mistackles, guys being out of position, tackles being broken, ect. We'll get more insight from Charger coaches as to what exactly they saw in this kid and how he could be leveraged. We traded up for this kid so I see the Chargers wanting to insert him day 1 if possible. Our history of LB injuries indicate this as well.

NFL teams throw close to 60% of their snaps. Not sure how you separate out him not being asked to contribute in pass coverage right away. Unless we go to man coverage and blitz him a lot, he has to cover someone. That is how zone pass defense works. As far as man to man, the he is not good at that, and neither is most of our defensive players, so I don't see that as an option, although if they can get everyone to improve then I suppose it is.

If teams see him on the field, they will test him. Every team in the NFL have scouted him and they have a book on him (and every other rookie). They know what he does well and what he doesn't do well. He will get tested. Everyone does.

I think they are banking on the fact that Murray will develop quickly. His development at OU was actually pretty rapid. He got to play as a freshman, and was kinda bad. He got a lot better his sophomore year. He got even better this past season, and really looked like he was starting to read and react better late last year (the game slowing down for him ???).

He really hasn't had much exposure to being used in traditional pass coverage, which often just means no one has shown him the finer points of it. He has great speed for a LB (decent speed for a S). His other physical traits are also very good. It's not like he doesn't have the physical skills for it. His instincts for pass coverage are not great, but again, if he gets a lot of reps in practice and in early games, he is going to get better.

I kind of think of him as possibly being like Roger Craig of the SF 49ers (and NFL HOF). When he was drafted out of Nebraska, the book on him was he had very little wiggle in his run because he had played mostly FB, and couldn't catch, because he had only caught a few passes in college. But to anyone who noticed (like SF), he played mostly FB, because Nebraska had great success recruiting RB in those days (they had a new Heisman candidate every year back then) and their offense used their RB in pass protection, and really didn't design any passes to the RB (plus they ran the ball 50 times a game, so nobody caught many passes). Craig is still the only RB in NFL history who has 1000 yards rushing and receiving in the same season.

Murray was asked to take away QB runs, and take away the dump off passes and quick screens to the flats, that simply eat college defenses alive. He is outstanding at attacking those plays, because they took the time to teach him to stop that. But it came at the expense of him not being asked to do much traditional coverage. It doesn't mean he is incapable of it, it just means he hasn't done it much. But most college LB suck balls in pass coverage, and many of them will turn into at least OK pass coverage guys, or they won't get to play. This is not some new trend, it has been this way since at least the 1980's, when I first started scouting players.

[jamrock]

Faulk and mcaffery have also done 1000 yards rushing g and receiving

[Steve]

OK, but for a long time Craig was the only one.

Point being, he was thought of being incapable of either because no one had seen him do it before, and then did it anyway. He was a good enough athlete and player, and he added new skills to his game. All players have to improve to some degree. Murray has a important skill to develop. He has to learn to play zone pass coverage. I think a few other guys have done that in the history of the NFL. Like I said, I would say that is the rule for college LB, not the exception.

[21&500]

I tend to agree steve, I worry that we may not have gotten our value worth for the picks used, but the upside with KM is tremendous.
what sticks out to me is his ability to stop qb scrambles and passes to the flat (like you mentioned)
I can’t help but feel that he was targeted specifically for Mahomes and their infamous screen plays.
if he’s effective in containing those threats from our biggest divisional threat, I’ll be happy.

[like54ninjas]

2020 NFL FA.png

Yes?

[like54ninjas]

Derwin says we got him.....

[Heatmiser]

I see the comparison with the measureables, but it is off because of the different positions. Irvin was/is a DE. Murray is a traditional read and react ILB. Irvin was OK as a LB, but nothing special. Murray is already better than Irvin as a LB unless everything I have seen is completely wrong. However, given his frame, there is no hope of playing Murray at DE (or LEO) and asking him to rush the passer and expecting him to hold up against a 350 lb OT.

The biggest problem I have with Murray being an impact player is that ILB is not an impact position. If NFL teams where running the ball lie they did in the 1970-'s and 1980's, where teams ran the ball 55% of the time, with really good teams running the ball closer to 60-40%, then LB would be a much bigger deal. Yes, someone needs to make the tackles, but even a so-so LB is going to make a lot of tackles if the DL is playing well in front of him, and even an elite LB is going to play poorly if the DL doesn't help cover him up so he can run to the ball.

Yes, Murray is fast and explosive, but even the best coverage LB in the league is only about as good in pass coverage as a pretty average DB, and Murray needs a lot of work in that area. LB simply don't make enough impact plays (TFL, sacks, int, FF … ) to be "impact" players.

Yes, they need to do the routine stuff well, but that is a TEAM effort. No single LB, no single DT, no single DE is going to fix our run down problems, which are more about perception than being a real problem anyway. It is going to take a group effort, and there is simply no way around that. It takes an entire front 8 (including the SS since we keep our SS in the box) to stop the run.

If there is one issue I have with Murray, I would like to see him do a better job of wrapping up and tackling. Again, a lot of college LB are kinda sloppy at tackling. But he is not going to knock as many guys and fumbles lose by just sticking his arm out as he did at OU. A big part of our problems on D are simply poor tackling (and shedding) fundamentals. Everyone on our D needs to get better at tackling. While that is always true, it is more true for the Chargers than for most teams. It is simply something that they should do EVERY day in practice, regular season, and offseason, walkthrough and full practice.

Great analysis. Murray did play in the big 12, a conference known for offense and especially pass offense so I am comfortable with him as a 3 down player. Chargers seem to move lb all over the place so I don’t seem him pegged as a mike only. I agree on the tackling. He is a great closer and does not miss a lot of tackles but tends to go high at times and take players down by the neck. It looks flashy but is not good technique, can lead to misses in nfl and may hurt himself doing it. You can even see some of these tackles in his highlights I am sure. Great pick. Will be a difference maker and great companion to James.

[pacstud]

NFL teams throw close to 60% of their snaps. Not sure how you separate out him not being asked to contribute in pass coverage right away. Unless we go to man coverage and blitz him a lot, he has to cover someone. That is how zone pass defense works. As far as man to man, the he is not good at that, and neither is most of our defensive players, so I don't see that as an option, although if they can get everyone to improve then I suppose it is.

If teams see him on the field, they will test him. Every team in the NFL have scouted him and they have a book on him (and every other rookie). They know what he does well and what he doesn't do well. He will get tested. Everyone does.

I think they are banking on the fact that Murray will develop quickly. His development at OU was actually pretty rapid. He got to play as a freshman, and was kinda bad. He got a lot better his sophomore year. He got even better this past season, and really looked like he was starting to read and react better late last year (the game slowing down for him ???).

He really hasn't had much exposure to being used in traditional pass coverage, which often just means no one has shown him the finer points of it. He has great speed for a LB (decent speed for a S). His other physical traits are also very good. It's not like he doesn't have the physical skills for it. His instincts for pass coverage are not great, but again, if he gets a lot of reps in practice and in early games, he is going to get better.

I kind of think of him as possibly being like Roger Craig of the SF 49ers (and NFL HOF). When he was drafted out of Nebraska, the book on him was he had very little wiggle in his run because he had played mostly FB, and couldn't catch, because he had only caught a few passes in college. But to anyone who noticed (like SF), he played mostly FB, because Nebraska had great success recruiting RB in those days (they had a new Heisman candidate every year back then) and their offense used their RB in pass protection, and really didn't design any passes to the RB (plus they ran the ball 50 times a game, so nobody caught many passes). Craig is still the only RB in NFL history who has 1000 yards rushing and receiving in the same season.

Murray was asked to take away QB runs, and take away the dump off passes and quick screens to the flats, that simply eat college defenses alive. He is outstanding at attacking those plays, because they took the time to teach him to stop that. But it came at the expense of him not being asked to do much traditional coverage. It doesn't mean he is incapable of it, it just means he hasn't done it much. But most college LB suck balls in pass coverage, and many of them will turn into at least OK pass coverage guys, or they won't get to play. This is not some new trend, it has been this way since at least the 1980's, when I first started scouting players.

Two points (I only watched four of his games...caveat):

1. How the hell are you seeing his pass drops? I can't find an all-22 for college games and the framing on Saturdays doesn't really show it. So I have no clue how well he drops since you can't see this on Saturday film (network film).
2. His ability to cover the flats was arguably better than his ability to fit in the run game. His ability to pick up crossers (something we can see on his film) was also very good. As you note, all based on his speed.

I'm FAR more worried about his tackling and mechanics vs blockers than I am his coverage.

Most importantly, and why I'm happy, he appears to be an absolute culture warrior, leader, and true "football player".

[Lone Bolt]

Absolutely love this pick...and this LB will be an "impact" player...gonna be a great blitzer up the middle...gonna love opposing QBs trying to figure whether it's James or Murray or King coming....
Speed to help neutralize Mahomes and Jackson types...
Range for reliable "linebacking" vs the run game, inside and out...
Athleticism to cover, preventing easy matchup exploits...

Impact player whether he puts up sexy stats...even if he isn't doing the sacking or intercepting, him doing his job will better enable others to do so...that's having an impact to me.

[pacstud]

A note on tackling:

I have made it abundantly clear through the years that I have a disdain for posters who lament "fundamental" tackling in the NFL. This opinion lacks an understanding of the physics of the game. 190lb DBs don't "wrap up" 230 lb RBs. Not if they want to keep playing. Additionally, the idea of "breaking down" and "wrapping up" is increasingly being shown to be an ineffective tackling technique all the way down to the HS level. Many teams, including mine, still practice this technique...something most of us learned, but it is falling out of favor.

What is increasingly becoming the norm (no, not "Hawk" tackling which is largely a unicorn and doesn't work anyway) is to simply go a million miles an hour and blow through the FRONT hip of the runner. The idea being you have more teammates behind the runners hip than you do in front, and with the increased speed and athleticism of the players, breaking down and wrapping up simply leads to MORE missed tackles, not less. So teams (I don't know about OK, but that's how they look when they defend) tell their players to take an angle, fly to the ball, and go through the front/far hip of the runner at full speed.

Now, I know that this will stir passions and ire because when we played coach did Oklahoma drills and Miami drills and boy did we tackle, full live practices, tough as nails, push ups into piles of fire ants....dear God we were so tough

However, no one tackles full speed outside the game anymore. Maybe one or two sessions in the summer. It's not done, nor is it wise. Thud, wrap up??? Sure. Live practice? lol, uh no. So tackling has evolved. And believe it or not, it's better. Christ, watch an old game. Guys "break down and wrap up" and fall off runners ALL. THE. TIME. It's as if the ball carriers are fucking studs and tackling them is difficult regardless of technique.

So Murray. Yes, he tackles high and arm tackles. But look at it this way: Would you rather he miss three tackles and make twelve having arrived at fifteen opportunities OR make nine of the nine tackles his slow ass lumbered to? His speed and ferocity gets him to more tackle OPPORTUNITIES than the average player, so even if he misses some tackles 1) he's there in the first place and more importantly 2) he has disrupted the runner enough to buy time for teammates.