Post Draft Discussion

[alex8080]

i think gavino borquez has a recent article with 3 FA's. Peters, Bennard, Square. All have been mentioned on this board previously.

i would have thought that ot and cb would have been addressed early (although i do appreciate their draft after giving time to think). perhaps they had the plan to cover ot and cb after the draft. makes a bit more sense to me now. i don't trust #2 cb unless harris goes outside? dennard is younger and good. heyward is getting up there in age

peters or glenn = great. give pipkins some playing time as well (here and there). smart move and you will need it with denver's line. (btw, denver did very well dafting and FA)

if a big IF, they plan on playing herbert this year, those would be the logical moves. leadership and confidence seems to be his improvement and this would assist.

my biggest concern really is pouncey's health????!!!!! i always thought that center is the biggest piece of the OL. saints drafted 2 in 2 years. i think that is intelligent. give me a mack or a hadwick again.

[Topcat]

That is not at all what TT said...watch the interview for yourself. He said if Miami had taken Herbert, and Tua was on the board, he would have taken Tua, that they liked all three QBs, that when you are picking 6 and need a QB, you gotta look at taking them, and that we were fortunate that there were three really good ones this year.

Okay, there was no link to the interview, so I have taken down that other post...

[Steve]

You mean to tell me that there isn’t really a hot tub time machine?

If there is one, given my career choice, I could really use it. Today's forecast is another one that has me shaking my head.

[wu-dai clan]

If there is one, given my career choice, I could really use it. Today's forecast is another one that has me shaking my head.

Do I need my umbrella or don't I ?
:lol:

[Steve]

40 is too much except occasions with multiple turnovers.......... 30's is more likely......

The best defense in NFL last year gave up 31 points to the Chiefs and lost...... because 49ers only scored 20 points.....
The current NFL rules make it easy for any decent well designed offense to score 30+.....

Chargers struggled to score less than 20 points per game last year Offensively..... and not counting OT....... that won't beat very many teams, and keeps the bad ones in the game till the end......

People keep saying how talented our offense and defense are but last year our offense struggled to score.... and our defense gave up a relatively easy score whenever an opposing team really needed it...and most teams played us conservatively because they knew Chargers were not scoring much.... .. bottom line is we were not as talented on offense or defense as some thought....... hence this off season's rebuild.....

to be competitive with most teams, the Chargers need to be averaging about 30 points per game.... an all pro defense cannot shut down a great offense like KC....... the rules will not allow the techniques that great defenses like the 85 bears and ravens used to employ..... We still will need to score over 30 to beat chiefs..... NE has only beat them scoring over 30..... Chargers beat them once with a little less than 30 ONLY because we chose to smartly go for 2 instead of tying game and going to OT which would have meant winner would have scored over 30.....

if the chargers get back to scoring close to or above 30 points per game we will win more than we lose and it will put pressure on our opponent to score over 30 to win, and a talented well coached defense may be able to create a turnover or bat a ball away, etc at a critical time to help you win..... only bad offenses can be shut out today......

Chiefs defense is not great.... but the chiefs offense is so scary explosive that conservative teams struggle mightily to keep up and that pressure causes bad decisions, desperate throws, etc..... some coaches chose to go for it on 4th downs just because they were afraid of giving ball back top chiefs offense......

Couple of things.

Our turnover ratio was pretty bad last year, but a lot of our giveaways were late in the games, when Rivers was forcing passes when he had run out of options. They didn't cost us the game directly, the game was already lost. Where we were really lacking last season was takeaways. They were really down, but they usually are. They tend to fluctuate badly from season to season. You can do everything you can to help, but it is largely about luck.

We allowed 22 points per game (21.5), so we really only need to score about 23 or 24 points per game. It is also worth noting that averaging 30 points per game means we have to score 480 points in a season, which puts us very close to needing to be a record scoring offense. Not quite, but almost. Record paced offenses tend to do badly in the playoffs and SB.

https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/293067/why-a-500-point-season-doesnt-mean-much-at-the-super-bowl

And since the article was written in 2019, they should update it for KC. Not quite, since they scored 105 fewer points this season than last (451 this season where they won the SB, 2018 KC team 565). That is about 1 TD less per game, but they won the SB. Maybe the offensive thing is not as important as you think, and being a complete team is more important.

I don't think anyone is talking about shutouts these days, just make sure we make them earn every point they get, since so many KC TD are scored on coverage breakdowns. To me the most important thing is to try and raise the overall talent level up, so that we don't have to get too cute trying to cover up a "weak link" type of player. If teams come close to shitting themselves vs KC, it is because of the matchups, and then they make mistakes making things too complicated for their own defenses, and then when they are doing too much new or different stuff, they screw up and give up easy points. It helps that Mahommes is so good at reading that kind of stuff, but I think we can matchup better, if we just get a good dime package and just line up and go.

As far as some coaches I know go, the thought is that a good defense that can matchup vs the top offense can often cause an explosive offense to become panic stricken if they don't enjoy much success. We have done a very good job of containing KC offense the last 4 games. While we lost 3 of 4 games, the final score of those games was 24-17 and 31-21 this year and 38-28 and 28-29 in 2018. The narrative that we need a ton of points to compete is not quite true. We do need to do somewhat better, but in the two games that we allowed 30 points, the thing that got them over the 30 mark was a late TD caused by one or more missed tackles.

The Chargers need to do a few things before we are going to be anything resembling a championship team. The biggest thing is do a lot better on ST. We were 32 ranked ST by (football outsiders maybe) and every other metric has us pretty low, if not 32. We weren't much higher the couple of years before. I like adding Jennings and Reed as kick returners, and everyone we drafted should be able to help out there (except Hebert). Better field position to start, and worse for the other team would actually help a fair bit, and a little less excitement in our place kicking would be nice.

[Steve]

Do I need my umbrella or don't I ?
:lol:

It's the severe weather thing tonight, but the umbrella might be a nice touch as you fly up into the cloud.

[Panamamike]

Just finished watching an interview with Greg Cosell of NFL films (and this guy saw a ton of football films) and at the 15 minute mark he talks a ton about Tua! We might have gotten the second Best QB in the draft but I'm not entirely sure what he thinks of Herbert. Anyway watch the entire video as it's one of the most insightful post draft interviews I've seen yet!

Don'think anyone denied his talent level. The major question is can he stay healthy. Talent doesn't do much good if it is not able to stay on the field. A fact us Charger fans are all too familiar with.

[Formula 21]

Just finished watching an interview with Greg Cosell of NFL films (and this guy saw a ton of football films) and at the 15 minute mark he talks a ton about Tua! We might have gotten the second Best QB in the draft but I'm not entirely sure what he thinks of Herbert. Anyway watch the entire video as it's one of the most insightful post draft interviews I've seen yet!

I listen to the comments on Aaron Rogers and think of Rivers. A young coach doesn’t like the experienced qb not running plays according to the coach's game plan.

[Lone Bolt]

It's the severe weather thing tonight, but the umbrella might be a nice touch as you fly up into the cloud.

Yikes...got caught in one of those once...out in the field, training. Huddled in my Humvee, I watched it destroy a tank/Bradley field maintenance shed 200 yards away, and then was buffeted by 100 mph winds as it lifted off the ground, passed over us, and reformed a 1/4 mile away....couldn't catch my breath, ears popping....to this day, I'm scared to death of the damn things.

Then, few years later, back in the civilian world, we were working construction, my dad, brothers, and I, at a Parsons plant between Eureka and Roanoke Illinois...bad storm coming, working outside...talked them into packing it in for the day...we were five miles down the road when we saw the black cloud pass behind us...we turned around and went back. Parking lot was a junkyard, vehicles piled 3 high...huge plant was leveled, BRICK farmhouse was completely gone...bricks strewn throughout a field a mile away. Nobody died, lord bless them...farmers were gone, and employees had a storm shelter of block and concrete that survived. F5 I believe...

Fuck tornadoes....

[sonorajim]

Couple of things.

Our turnover ratio was pretty bad last year, but a lot of our giveaways were late in the games, when Rivers was forcing passes when he had run out of options. They didn't cost us the game directly, the game was already lost. Where we were really lacking last season was takeaways. They were really down, but they usually are. They tend to fluctuate badly from season to season. You can do everything you can to help, but it is largely about luck.

We allowed 22 points per game (21.5), so we really only need to score about 23 or 24 points per game. It is also worth noting that averaging 30 points per game means we have to score 480 points in a season, which puts us very close to needing to be a record scoring offense. Not quite, but almost. Record paced offenses tend to do badly in the playoffs and SB.

https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/293067/why-a-500-point-season-doesnt-mean-much-at-the-super-bowl

And since the article was written in 2019, they should update it for KC. Not quite, since they scored 105 fewer points this season than last (451 this season where they won the SB, 2018 KC team 565). That is about 1 TD less per game, but they won the SB. Maybe the offensive thing is not as important as you think, and being a complete team is more important.

I don't think anyone is talking about shutouts these days, just make sure we make them earn every point they get, since so many KC TD are scored on coverage breakdowns. To me the most important thing is to try and raise the overall talent level up, so that we don't have to get too cute trying to cover up a "weak link" type of player. If teams come close to shitting themselves vs KC, it is because of the matchups, and then they make mistakes making things too complicated for their own defenses, and then when they are doing too much new or different stuff, they screw up and give up easy points. It helps that Mahommes is so good at reading that kind of stuff, but I think we can matchup better, if we just get a good dime package and just line up and go.

As far as some coaches I know go, the thought is that a good defense that can matchup vs the top offense can often cause an explosive offense to become panic stricken if they don't enjoy much success. We have done a very good job of containing KC offense the last 4 games. While we lost 3 of 4 games, the final score of those games was 24-17 and 31-21 this year and 38-28 and 28-29 in 2018. The narrative that we need a ton of points to compete is not quite true. We do need to do somewhat better, but in the two games that we allowed 30 points, the thing that got them over the 30 mark was a late TD caused by one or more missed tackles.

The Chargers need to do a few things before we are going to be anything resembling a championship team. The biggest thing is do a lot better on ST. We were 32 ranked ST by (football outsiders maybe) and every other metric has us pretty low, if not 32. We weren't much higher the couple of years before. I like adding Jennings and Reed as kick returners, and everyone we drafted should be able to help out there (except Hebert). Better field position to start, and worse for the other team would actually help a fair bit, and a little less excitement in our place kicking would be nice.

I really liked this post. Overall pro-TEAM concept.
The tackling concept really jumps out when you point out that losses to KC were largely one or two chunk plays allowed.
Field pos IS a big deal. I nearly explode when a nice return is erased by the infamous "Block in the back" or a forced punt turns into a 1st on a D penalty. Discipline on the "teams" is so critical.

[Critty]

At least one of the three qbs will bust
the next 5 years are going to be fun
unless it’s JH

Probably
But, Maybe not. What if its like 2004.
And could it be Herbert.
3rd QB taken in rd 1 since Rivers draft.

2004.
Manning
Rivers
3.Rothelisberger

2005
Smith
Rodgers
3.Campbell

2006
Young
Leinert
3.Cutler

2007
J.Russell
Locker
3.N/A

2008
Ryan
Flacco
3.N/A

2009
Stafford
Sanchez
3.Freeman

2010
Bradford
Tebow
3.N/A

2011
Newton
Locker
3.Gabbert

2012
Luck
Griffin
3.Tannenhill

2013
Emanuel
N/A
3.N/A

2014
Bortles
Manziel
3.Bridgewater

2015
Winston
Marriota
3.N/A

2016
Goff
Wentz
3.Lynch

2017
Trubisky
Mahomes
3.Watson

2018
Mayfield
Darnold
3.Allen

2019
Murray
Jones
3.Haskins

2020
Burrow
Tua
3.Herbert

seems like any could bust
a lot of time that 3rd QB was pick mid to bottom of rd 1. if we look at top 15 3rd QB taken to compare then it is just:
Big Ben
Cutler
Gabbert
Tannenhill
Watson
Allen
Haskins
Herbert

Haskins is too young to say
Allen, Watson, Tannenhill were in playoffs last year.
Gabbert was a bust. Cutler wasn't special but started a lot of games. BigBen hall of famer..
So only one true bust of that group that was a 3rd QB taken in top 15.
I'm trying to spin it like Herbert is only a 10% chance to completely bust.

[Guest]

You wanted the thread, here it is.

I like the players chosen, I really do. I think we added two true #1 picks. There’s a lot to be said for that.I love the final piece for the defense and accept the 50-50 chance we've taken to get a franchise QB.

But, I give this draft an F. Final grade. Before the last 4 players are chosen.

Its simple. As I have stated, no OLT in the first two picks gets you an F. So they earned it.

For the draft as a whole, I think an F is a little bit too harsh, but that our draft this year was very poor compared to what it very, very easily could have been.

From a BPA standpoint, Simmons was the BPA and there was a need at LB and Simmons would have immediately been our best LB. Had Simmons been drafted, then we would not have traded two picks for Murray, who is not as good as Simmons. Those two picks could have been Jonathan Taylor and Josh Jones, players arguably of first round value who also would have filled positions of need.

Simmons, Taylor and Jones would have been a far superior haul than just Herbert and Murray from a talent standpoint and would have done a better job of filling our positions of need. This draft has to be downgraded severely based upon what amounted to two colossal draft strategy screw ups. There is no way around that.

But even worse, no OC was drafted and no field stretching WR was drafted. Those too were obvious needs. And with all due respect to Parham, a failed NFL player that does well against lesser competition in the XFL at TE is not going to give the team any sort of leverage or backup option when it comes to long term plans regarding Henry. That was a need too. Those were all whiffs as well.

We did get a QB and Murray is a good player at LB, so that will spare my initial grade form being a flat out F, but I would put our draft as no better than a D as it consistently failed to take the BPA, failed to address team needs and unnecessarily traded away valuable draft capital.