K.J. Hill, WR, Ohio State Discussion

[Steve]

Do you ever wonder why when it wasn't the case in the past? Maybe not Herberts choice.

I think Oregon didn't turn him lose because of his inconsistency. He needs to improve his footwork so that he gets his body into position to be ready to throw when his receivers come out of their breaks. Hebert's feet are inconsistent, and it shows with his accuracy. It takes him time to get his body ready and by then the windows are closed.

This is a common problem among young QB. It is why Lamar Jackson left so many passes on the field against us in the playoff game, and why this past season, as his footwork has improved, that isn't happening anymore. He had sloppy feet, and was getting his body into bad position that he was constantly having to shift his body, that he simply doesn't do as much anymore.

Hebert is going to be fine on these kinds of things, but he is going to question himself if we don't give him the time to fix these problems. Give him the time, and I think he is a good QB. Throw him in too early, then he isn't sure if he can trust what he sees because he isn't sure if it is the read, or it is just him not being capable of making the throws.

[beachcomber]

anything to the notion that a QB can be too tall ??

recall that guy outta SDSU once upon a time (Dan.... ?), and where some peoples were of the belief that he was just too tall for QB ??

[like54ninjas]

anything to the notion that a QB can be too tall ??

recall that guy outta SDSU once upon a time (Dan.... ?), and where some peoples were of the belief that he was just too tall for QB ??

Height doesn’t matter nearly as much as functional athleticism.

Example I’ve always liked was......
- could Shaquille O’Neal have played OT or DE/DT with his size, athleticism, mobility, etc?

[La Costa Boy]

Sorry, so MANY short passes.

Hill should be a good fit for that type of offense. Lots of quick swings, short outs, short crosses, maybe some quick screens...

That can make him a chain moving machine........ I like it.......

[Steve]

anything to the notion that a QB can be too tall ??

recall that guy outta SDSU once upon a time (Dan.... ?), and where some peoples were of the belief that he was just too tall for QB ??

Dan McGuire, Mark McGuire's brother was a 1st round pick for the Seahawks, but never really got to play much. His throwing motion was supposedly so long and slow that every DB could break on the passes and either deflect them to get an int.

It's possible. If you are that big, you would have to work really hard to make up for long limbs and try and do everything you can to speed up the throws. But there really aren't many people that tall, and most that are are a good fit to be TE, DE or OT, where the arm length is an asset, not a disadvantage.

[Caslon]

Hill considers himself a route technician, he studied film of Keenen Allen in college. Wish he was a couple of inches taller. Some sites list him at 5-11, others at 6 ft. Doesn't have Benjamin's speed at the slot position but Travis wasn't that great a route runner when he wasn't sprinting down the field. A solid WR pick, maybe a steal. I want him replacing undrafted free agent Patton on the depth chart as soon as possible!

[gzubeck]

Dan McGuire, Mark McGuire's brother was a 1st round pick for the Seahawks, but never really got to play much. His throwing motion was supposedly so long and slow that every DB could break on the passes and either deflect them to get an int.

It's possible. If you are that big, you would have to work really hard to make up for long limbs and try and do everything you can to speed up the throws. But there really aren't many people that tall, and most that are are a good fit to be TE, DE or OT, where the arm length is an asset, not a disadvantage.

OK....short passes or Rocket Launcher Time! If that doesn't work run it up the middle. We've got options. LOL!

[GoDucks2020]

I think Oregon didn't turn him lose because of his inconsistency. He needs to improve his footwork so that he gets his body into position to be ready to throw when his receivers come out of their breaks. Hebert's feet are inconsistent, and it shows with his accuracy. It takes him time to get his body ready and by then the windows are closed.

This is a common problem among young QB. It is why Lamar Jackson left so many passes on the field against us in the playoff game, and why this past season, as his footwork has improved, that isn't happening anymore. He had sloppy feet, and was getting his body into bad position that he was constantly having to shift his body, that he simply doesn't do as much anymore.

Hebert is going to be fine on these kinds of things, but he is going to question himself if we don't give him the time to fix these problems. Give him the time, and I think he is a good QB. Throw him in too early, then he isn't sure if he can trust what he sees because he isn't sure if it is the read, or it is just him not being capable of making the throws.

Herbert is an accurate passer. He completed 67% of his passes his senior year. In his junior year, the receivers dropped 52 balls, a drop rate of over 13%. The coaches ran a conservative offense the last two years not because of Herbert. HC Mario Cristobal loves smash mouth football. He installed an archaic pistol based power running offense. It was agonizingly predictable. The last time Herbert played in a wide-open passing offense was as a freshman. He threw 6 TDs against Cal and had 489 passing yards against ASU in his 2nd and 3rd starts. I think he will excel in a real NFL passing scheme with receivers that can actually catch the football. He will also get real NFL coaching. The kid is a sponge and will soak it up fast. He will also know the playbook inside and out. The biggest X factor is the Coranvirus. When will practices start?

[Boltjolt]

I keep waiting to hear he just had a surgery, or a flagged drug test or something...I just assumed there was a good reason he dropped. Turns out he has short arms and smallish catch radius...lol. In a deep WR class, the scouts nit picked a hell of a receiver right down to us in the seventh. Really happy with the adds we made to the receiving corps. This guy is gonna catch a lot of balls for us.

Agree. I figured it was his lack of long speed and he only had a 32" cert and he doesn't go up and fight for the ball. However, in the slot, it will suit him fine. Can't help but picture Welker as a comparable. Good value imo though we didn't get a real burner,....but Joe Reed has good speed. Hope both guys can help us a lot this season... If we have one.

[Boltjolt]

Dan McGuire, Mark McGuire's brother was a 1st round pick for the Seahawks, but never really got to play much. His throwing motion was supposedly so long and slow that every DB could break on the passes and either deflect them to get an int.

It's possible. If you are that big, you would have to work really hard to make up for long limbs and try and do everything you can to speed up the throws. But there really aren't many people that tall, and most that are are a good fit to be TE, DE or OT, where the arm length is an asset, not a disadvantage.

Dan McGuire was 6'8"....tall lankey dude coming out of the WAC.

[Steve]

Herbert is an accurate passer. He completed 67% of his passes his senior year. In his junior year, the receivers dropped 52 balls, a drop rate of over 13%. The coaches ran a conservative offense the last two years not because of Herbert. HC Mario Cristobal loves smash mouth football. He installed an archaic pistol based power running offense. It was agonizingly predictable. The last time Herbert played in a wide-open passing offense was as a freshman. He threw 6 TDs against Cal and had 489 passing yards against ASU in his 2nd and 3rd starts. I think he will excel in a real NFL passing scheme with receivers that can actually catch the football. He will also get real NFL coaching. The kid is a sponge and will soak it up fast. He will also know the playbook inside and out. The biggest X factor is the Coranvirus. When will practices start?

Don't look at the completion percentage. That isn't as good sign of his accuracy. That is an artifact of his receivers often stopping their routes and being forced to adjust to the ball that was poorly thrown to begin with. His overall percentage looks high because he is not throwing the ball downfield much. Yes, he had a lot of drops, that explains why it is as low as it is (67% for a college offense that doesn't go downfield much is actually low). But if he was a really productive college QB< that percentage should be in the mid 70%'s. Ok, so the drops hurt that, but it is still kinda low.

Look at the ball placement on both the short and the long passes. His actual placement is sometimes incredibly bad. His receivers are turning around. He is not getting the ball out in front of the guy on the screens that much. The timing of the ball in and out of the receiver breaks is all over the place. He doesn't do a very good job of throwing his receivers open.

Almost every QB who is inconsistent can track that fact back to their mechanics. Hebert is just like everyone else. He also has a horrible PFF grade vs pressure. He goes to pieces when pressured. He has zero confidence he can put the ball where he needs it when he needs it to beat the blitz. Yes, college offenses suck against pressure, but he is only bit above average compared to other college QB.

I agree, I think he will excel, but it is not about learning yet another offense. Him learning an NFL Offense is just another reason that they should take his helmet and not let him play unless Tyrod and Stick get hurt.

The primary thing he needs to do is learn to throw the ball like a NFL QB, instead of a "grip and rip" guy. For the most part, you can judge all the QB prospects in the draft this year by watching their feet. Hebert's feet are all over the place. Sometimes they look pretty good, and at times they are all over the place. His downfield passing looks better, because he is less inconsistent with his footwork downfield, but it is still not near good enough for a NFL Franchise to rely on. It needs to get better, plus, he needs to throw the ball all over the field. It takes NFL defenses no more than 4 games to get a good read on an NFL player. They will dissect the film, and any weaknesses he has will be ruthlessly exploited by any NFL D. Can't throw short, he will be throwing into cover4, or press on every play till he throws them out of it. And, if he is still struggling, no team he faces will stop until he does.

Mostly, I think the chargers just need to have him go back and learn the fundamentals of the footwork of dropback passing from under center. It doesn't matter that he won't be using it that much, use it as a training tool. Take the time and do it right. Why rush the most important personnel decision for the next decade (or two). Do it right, we don't just get a starter, we get a dominant franchise QB.

Again, so many of the best NFL QB didn't play their rookie seasons, or even longer. Drew Brees, Mahomes, Rivers, Brady … . Some of that is learning the mechanics. Some of it is building up their bodies to take the pounding. Some of it is just learning a large playbook. We have a decent QB in Tyrod Taylor, who can win some games if players around him play well. But a rookie QB making rookie mistakes simply puts us behind the 8-ball. Tyrod is over 30, so he is not long for the starting job even if he plays out of this world. His game is largely because of his feet, so he is not going to be playing nwhen he is 45, unless it is as a backup. Hebert will get his chance, lets just make sure he is mechanically and schematically prepared when he does.

[powderblueboy]

anything to the notion that a QB can be too tall ??

recall that guy outta SDSU once upon a time (Dan.... ?), and where some peoples were of the belief that he was just too tall for QB ??

Dan Mcguire (sic).
If i remember correctly, he was 6'8" , & he went in the first at #17 to Seattle ....something like that.