K.J. Hill, WR, Ohio State Discussion

[Topcat]

He's probably caught so many passes in collegiate play that he sleeps with his arms outstretched at night! Just when you think you get a steal of a pick with KA in the third we dig this kid up in the 7th. Call me crazy but I also think this schoen UDFA might be an additional sleeper that makes the team or practice squad.

247 sports agrees with u:

image.png
image.png

https://247sports.com/college/kansas-state/Article/Kansas-State-wide-receiver-Dalton-Schoen-details-a-busy-week-fielding-calls-from-NFL-teams-ahead-of-the-2020-NFL-Draft-146393846/

[Boltgang74]

Yeah lookin at some tape on UFDAs and this guy stuck way out.Damn has he got hands!

[gzubeck]

Kansas State WR Dalton Schoen

I like his catches in tight windows with very good concentration. Another Eke type player.

[powderblueboy]

Hill is a Wes Welker clone...actually, a bit faster.

One concern is that the Chargers basically have slot receivers + Mike Williams

[Formula 21]

I've watched Herbert for four years. Every game. Every snap. The last two years he's played in one of the worst schemes I've ever seen for passing the football. The emphasis was on power running with RBs weighing 200#; I'm not kidding. The receivers were mediocre and that's being kind. His best receiver by far was a TE and he blew his knee out in week 6. PFF is a joke. They touted Oregon's OL and it was vastly overrated except for Penei Sewell who's a top 10 draft choice. Sewell aside, the OL was experienced but very, very slow and unathletic. Two of the four seniors were drafted, one in the 5th and the other in the 6th. Both played in the interior and their strength wasn't pass blocking.

As a sophomore, Herbert completed almost 68% of passes while averaging 9.6 yards per attempt. He played in Willie Taggart's Gulf Coast offense, a complete joke of a scheme. That being said, it wasn't a dink and dunk offense. Herbert stretched the field every single game.

Four QBs completed over 70% of their passes last year, Jalen Hurts and Joe Burrow were two of the four. Hurts is not an accurate passer or a natural QB. Credit Lincoln Riley at OU and his scheme for maxing out Hurts. Joe Burrow was a 57% passer as a junior and probably a late round pick had he declared. He didn't lack for weapons nor did his receivers drop 52 passes like Herbert's. In comes Joe Brady from New Orleans and he completely revamps LSU's passing game. Burrow's stats skyrocket. Bottom line it's hard to win Daytona driving a Ford Pinto and that's what Herbert was driving for two years. His sophomore year he was driving a Toyota Tercel, a slight upgrade.

Herbert does need to work on his footwork under pressure but that's correctable. He's never played under center and impressed the coaches at the Senior Bowl on how fast he picked it up after working with QB coach John Beck for a couple of months, the first time he's every had a real QB coach. This kid is a natural. I don't know if he should play this year but he will go down the learning curve quickly IMO. If the OL sucks it might be wise to let Tyrod to take the beating. A lot of the critics have an to axe grind. They've questioned Herbert's leadership which was completely off base. His teammates love him. He didn't have to come back his senior year. He was likely a top 10 pick as a junior. Turning down that kind of $$$ speaks volumes.

Love the post. But didn't AL or TT just say they were going to run Herbert’s college offense? Uh oh.

[GoDucks2020]

Love the post. But didn't AL or TT just say they were going to run Herbert’s college offense? Uh oh.

I'd be shocked if those schools run Oregon's offense, especially Bama since the already have a wide open passing scheme with elite WR talent. Oregon's offense requires a dual threat QB who runs to the ball 10-15 times per game to have a remote chance of working. It also requires bigger RBs to bang between the tackles.

[Steve]

FWIW, it sounds like from interviews that he attended the Manning academy, and has been working to correct some of his problems with his mechanics during this predraft process...must have been in February? Anyway, something about his shoulder getting loose, and he needed to cross the X with his hips and upper body? I don't know exactly, but it sounds like he has been working on it, and he did look good at the combine...

Yeah, every QB does that. That is part of the 1 year timeline.

But when DL are coming at you full speed NFL style, what is his body going to remember? Is it being sloppy for 4 years in college, or a couple of weeks in the Manning camp? As soon as the pressure starts, your "muscle memory" (it's actually your nervous system), goes back to the sequencing that it has done so many times before. IT's an all or nothing thing.

You either take the time and do it really right, so that no matter what is happening, no matter how fast Von Miller is coming at him, his body is going to try and do the right thing. He won't, but he will be a hell of a lot closer to doing it correctly, that the ball will fly where it is supposed to. Again, look at the long list of great NFL QB who got to sit a while. Then look at the ones who started from day 1. THe day 1 list is much shorter, and while ti is tough to prove, I am pretty sure they develop more slowly long term. No QB is fully developed in a year or two. But you get a guy like Mahommes who is making big time adjustments to rare defensive alignments in week 1, because he sat on the bench and took his time for 16 weeks his rookie year.

[Panamamike]

Love the post. But didn't AL or TT just say they were going to run Herbert’s college offense? Uh oh.

no he didn't. just that they will run a lot more plays from a pistol formation.

[Fleet]

[powderblueboy]

Lostbuckfan 8 HOURS AGO

In his last four games as a Buckeye, against Penn State, tSUN, Wisconsin and Clemson, K.J. Hill had 19 receptions and 4 touchdowns, scoring touchdowns in three of the four games. He led the Buckeyes in receptions 3 of those four games, including the Big Ten Championship game and the BCS Semi-Finals. When it mattered most, he delivered.

* i've noticed, even before this, that he can be effective in the red zone: that they can set up some special plays for him.

[Lone Bolt]

Yeah, every QB does that. That is part of the 1 year timeline.

But when DL are coming at you full speed NFL style, what is his body going to remember? Is it being sloppy for 4 years in college, or a couple of weeks in the Manning camp? As soon as the pressure starts, your "muscle memory" (it's actually your nervous system), goes back to the sequencing that it has done so many times before. IT's an all or nothing thing.

You either take the time and do it really right, so that no matter what is happening, no matter how fast Von Miller is coming at him, his body is going to try and do the right thing. He won't, but he will be a hell of a lot closer to doing it correctly, that the ball will fly where it is supposed to. Again, look at the long list of great NFL QB who got to sit a while. Then look at the ones who started from day 1. THe day 1 list is much shorter, and while ti is tough to prove, I am pretty sure they develop more slowly long term. No QB is fully developed in a year or two. But you get a guy like Mahommes who is making big time adjustments to rare defensive alignments in week 1, because he sat on the bench and took his time for 16 weeks his rookie year.

Don't disagree at all that he would benefit from at least one year on the bench. I'm just pointing out that he is already responding to some of the QB coaching, looking good at Senior Bowl, and throwing well at combine....coaching I believe he has lacked while at Oregon. I totally agree that he should sit a year, even 2...we got our future guy because we were picking 6, but I think that was a fortunate accident...with all the injuries, and Rivers falling to pieces, bad bounces here and there, and losing 9 games by 1 score? This team is poised for a bounce back, and Tyrod may well have surprising success surrounded by a well built team...so let's ride this nice little wave a while, and when it peters out...go with Herbert.

[Steve]

Don't disagree at all that he would benefit from at least one year on the bench. I'm just pointing out that he is already responding to some of the QB coaching, looking good at Senior Bowl, and throwing well at combine....coaching I believe he has lacked while at Oregon. I totally agree that he should sit a year, even 2...we got our future guy because we were picking 6, but I think that was a fortunate accident...with all the injuries, and Rivers falling to pieces, bad bounces here and there, and losing 9 games by 1 score? This team is poised for a bounce back, and Tyrod may well have surprising success surrounded by a well built team...so let's ride this nice little wave a while, and when it peters out...go with Herbert.

But, I am also mentioning it is in no way noteworthy. Everybody does this. Everyone, even other positions do draft prep where they work on position specific fundamentals.

As far as the underwear Olympics, I don't think that his workout even figures into the draft evaluation. Why would it, it is not playing football. What could one workout after almost 4 years of starting experience tell you?

I don't think Rivers fell to pieces, FWIW.