And With The 5th Pick Of The NFL Draft Chargers Select....Discussion

[Boltjolt]

Not concerned at all with Harrison Jr.'s speed .... unless he plans on gaining 10 more pounds, his game tape speed is sufficient.

Brock Bowers looks plenty fast on tape, but that seems to be in the low 230s.
He'll put up zero resistance to defensive ends at that weight and he'll struggle against most NFL linebackers;
so forget about him being an inline blocker ... which reduces his swiss army knife appeal.

Okay, he'll then be a splint end .... and you can still pull him as a lead blocker on running plays, or to seal someone off by getting in their way.
But in my mind, that would put an end to the idea that he's going to be a very good NFL blocking tight end.

If he runs a 4.50 at 243 pounds, that would be something ... you can expand his role in the offense.
It's not asking too much .... the Chargers want to run the football effectively under Harbaugh.

He was listed at 240 on Georgias team site and weighed 243 at the combine. . Don't know what to tell ya. And i don't think 10 lbs will suddenly slow you down much unless MAYBE you are Sproles height.
Jason Verrett showed up at the combine at 189 lbs. Up from around 175 ...biggest he ever been because his size was in question. He ran the 2nd fastest time of the DBs at 4.38.

On one draft site, Bowers is shown as a 4.48...not sure where that came from so I don't believe it till I see it. If Bowers runs a 4.55 I'm good with it. Anything below is a great. Most importantly, he plays fast all the time.

[Parcells]

My view on this Stay at 5 BPA debater. Trench is priority. But Elite is priority. Need also is a priority if it fits either Trench or Elite also. So now we turn to our good friend, mathematics.

I look at the best 2 WRs - MH2 and Nabers imo. They are better than any receivers taken last year, or year before, or for several prior years. They are elite. BPA 1 & 2 not playing QB imo. elite = check!

Then I look at Alt. I’m not a great OT scout and I havent watched every snap but I have watched more than a couple videos of him. He’s good, as in ok he’s good. But he’s not really elite. he gets shoved into the QB in pass pro. he’s ok at rush blocking but he’s not an elite rush blocker, witness how many here claim Fuaga is a better rush blocker. He’s not better than top OTs taken just last year, nor in a lot of years. He is not an elite OT, he’s simply the best of the 2024 class in a year where there is no true elite OT but there are several good OTs. If I had no LT, he’d be my choice, as Need+Trench > Elite.

But I don’t need LT. I need RT and RT is not a #5 value. I do desperately need an elite WR, I just lost my best 2 WRs.

So the math is simple: Elite+Need > Trench. Sorry, Alt, you’re out this time.

This does a great job of laying out most of the value proposition. If the need were a wash, we’d be better off taking the more elite prospect. If the positional value were equivalent, we’d be better off taking the elite prospect. But it just so happens that the two of the three most elite non-QB prospects in this draft are MHJ and Nabers (I’d say #3 is Bowers v Odunze). Irrespective of position, they’re the two best prospects. Then add in positional value, and they would be worth taking if they were equal prospects. And then you add in the fact that it’s at a position of massive need, and taking MHJ or Nabers should be automatic, unless they plan to trade down and snag Bowers or Odunze.

Right now, we don’t have a top 50 WR on our roster.

[dmac_bolt]

This does a great job of laying out most of the value proposition. If the need were a wash, we’d be better off taking the more elite prospect. If the positional value were equivalent, we’d be better off taking the elite prospect. But it just so happens that the two of the three most elite non-QB prospects in this draft are MHJ and Nabers (I’d say #3 is Bowers v Odunze). Irrespective of position, they’re the two best prospects. Then add in positional value, and they would be worth taking if they were equal prospects. And then you add in the fact that it’s at a position of massive need, and taking MHJ or Nabers should be automatic, unless they plan to trade down and snag Bowers or Odunze.

Right now, we don’t have a top 50 WR on our roster.

It’s really close - and I really don’t think Alt is that “generational” OT - but again I’m not a great OT scout. I should add another factor - the double-weighted “Coach Opinion” variable. If he doubles down on OT, because his gut football guru is gnawing at him inside the pick is Alt.

>. Elite+Need < Trench + 2xCoach (2<3)

I’ve said all along there Is No One Way. They can rebuild by first going trench and then adding skill, or taking elite skill first and then adding football playing trenchers. I like the trade down over both Stay-At-5 options personally but I haven’t received a call from any GM with an offer yet so … ?

I’m not trading down 2 or 3 times and completely out of Rd1. nope, not from 5. I’m imbibing at least 1 if not 2 top shelf shots while the taste buds are sharp before I start throwing back well drinks. American Bourbon Whiskey, if you’d please.

[wu-dai clan]

This does a great job of laying out most of the value proposition. If the need were a wash, we’d be better off taking the more elite prospect. If the positional value were equivalent, we’d be better off taking the elite prospect. But it just so happens that the two of the three most elite non-QB prospects in this draft are MHJ and Nabers (I’d say #3 is Bowers v Odunze). Irrespective of position, they’re the two best prospects. Then add in positional value, and they would be worth taking if they were equal prospects. And then you add in the fact that it’s at a position of massive need, and taking MHJ or Nabers should be automatic, unless they plan to trade down and snag Bowers or Odunze.

Right now, we don’t have a top 50 WR on our roster.

There have been known to be instances where MHJ and Nabers were stoned by specific corners.

Would we be better off trading down and getting AD plus Worthy ?

With the hip drop tackle rule, how about we go Bowers--Malachi ??

There is still plenty to talk about.

[Chargers8491]

I think we all need to use our signatures to declare our "guy @ 5" assuming we had to stay @5 and 4 QBs went 1-4.

Team Bowers, what you at?!?

I've been on team Bower's since the beginning of this thread and having swayed. I don't care if it's #5, #11, or whatever. He is my guy. The idea that you don't take Bowers @ #5 because of value is just silly. That is what losing teams do. They will manage the cap just fine whether Bower's is picked @ #5 or not.

[UtahBolt]

Picking at 5th is a plan B
Plan A is to trade back and get something like 11th and 23th.
Could be Bowers and JPJ.

Everybody keeps talking like the trade back option is a forgone conclusion. It's not. Minnesota is going to do everything they can to trade with AZ ahead of us. It's also a very real proposition that AZ decides to take JJ McCarthy (done with Kyler and want a rookie QB contract) and if that is the case, then there is no reason for Min, LV, Den to bother to trade up, all the top rated QBs are gone. What am I missing?

As appealing as a trade back would be, we need to be ready to go at 5. it's just not clear that we will have the trade partner.

[blueman]

Horitz says they’ll be ready at 5.

[Ghost of Quacksaw]

Everybody keeps talking like the trade back option is a forgone conclusion. It's not. Minnesota is going to do everything they can to trade with AZ ahead of us. It's also a very real proposition that AZ decides to take JJ McCarthy (done with Kyler and want a rookie QB contract) and if that is the case, then there is no reason for Min, LV, Den to bother to trade up, all the top rated QBs are gone. What am I missing?

As appealing as a trade back would be, we need to be ready to go at 5. it's just not clear that we will have the trade partner.

Concur. I *do* think, however, that even if all the top QBs are off the board at #5, there will likely be suitors for the pick. Could be some team wants to move up for a wideout, the way Atlanta gave up two #1 picks to move up and select Julio Jones a decade or so ago.

So I believe there WILL be suitors for the pick-- just no guarantee there will be an offer that appeals to Hortiz, though.

[MusicMakerInMe]

I hate the "Baby Gronk" comparisons for Bowers I read about.

Gronk was ~6'7 265 lbs.
Travis Kelce is 6'5.
Bowers is 6'3 with short arms and hands.

There's a reason why Gronk could block some DE's.
Travis Kelce is Travis Kelce.
Bowers is more like a shorter George Kittle.

There's no such thing as "Baby Gronk". It's an oxymoron.

[Ghost of Quacksaw]

I've been on team Bower's since the beginning of this thread and having swayed. I don't care if it's #5, #11, or whatever. He is my guy. The idea that you don't take Bowers @ #5 because of value is just silly. That is what losing teams do. They will manage the cap just fine whether Bower's is picked @ #5 or not.

Pretty sure it's a fact that taking Bowers at #5 creates future cap complications that drafting him at #8 or #9 wouldn't. Not insurmountable, but complications, nonetheless. If it's possible to move down a bit and take Bowers, Hortiz also picks up extra draft capital. There's just no reason NOT to trade down several spots, if it's possible to.

[Chargers8491]

Pretty sure it's a fact that taking Bowers at #5 creates future cap complications that drafting him at #8 or #9 wouldn't. Not insurmountable, but complications, nonetheless. If it's possible to move down a bit and take Bowers, Hortiz also picks up extra draft capital. There's just no reason NOT to trade down several spots, if it's possible to.

I've said several times I prefer them to trade down but if they can't I'm taking Bowers @#5. Of course, taking him at #5 is going to create cap complications but that goes for whoever they take. The money is the same know matter who you take. They will be fine with the cap.

[richpjr]

Pretty sure it's a fact that taking Bowers at #5 creates future cap complications that drafting him at #8 or #9 wouldn't. Not insurmountable, but complications, nonetheless. If it's possible to move down a bit and take Bowers, Hortiz also picks up extra draft capital. There's just no reason NOT to trade down several spots, if it's possible to.

It will be fascinating to see what happens. I thought the Falcons would have been the perfect trade back spot before they signed Cousins. Now the Vikings rumors seem the most realistic, though I think it more likely they trade with AZ than us. Would Bowers be there at 11? I think we need to add either Bowers or one of the WRs as we a devoid of play makers for Herbert right now. We can add day 2 and beyond help, but they are day 2 and beyond for a reason. Herbert deserves an elite player.