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This second thing is why I would be more inclined to target a penetrating DL over a traditional run-stuffing NT type. Those DBs need a quick pocket collapse to be most effective.
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The way that game played out is still a mystery to me...even when we didn't play our best D, we never looked like that all season. Hate to say it, but Belicheck saw something on film, how we played against certain formations and personel groups, and fooled us utterly. We were not even close to Edelman on most of his receptions, and we had to know he was the guy. It was mystifying...and embarrassing. But I really believe it wasn't the talent on the D that was the problem, but the scheming...we should be able to fix that....like we did when we got to see KC and Baltimore a second time.Originally posted by 8/6/1960 View PostLone Bolt's Final Mock
Tyler Booker G, Josaiah Stewart Edge, Cam Skattebo RB, Mitchell Evans TE, Jamaree Caldwell NT, Isaac TeSlaa WR, Ahmed Hassanein DE, Craig Woodson S, Eli Cox C, Kalel Mullings RB
Sleeper day 3 pick: Tahj Brooks RB Texas Tech
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Nah, Bradley had to scheme with the guys he had, which were not good enough.Comment
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As far as the run stuffing NT go, look at Danny Shelton. He is one of the biggest and best run-stuffers in the NFL. Huge, powerful player who gets low, and is impossible to move because of his leverage.
However, because he was so one dimensional and expensive (he was a high draft pick) Cleveland traded him while he was on his rookie deal. NE actually had him as a healthy scratch when they were still fighting for playoff seating.
I am not totaly against the idea of a big run stuffing DT. I wouldn't mind signing Shelton for example. However, if has to be for the right price.
I don't want to spend NFL Capital for a guy who is not going to be an impact DT. Don't overvalue (draft picks or money) players who aren't going to have game-changing impacts. NT is one of those spots. A NT or a big run stuffing LB could be valueable, they are just role players, so you have to do that accordingly.
Adding a penetrating DT would likely have a much bigger impact. First, as much as people don't want to admit it, running teams cannot deal with players like Aaron Donald blowing up plays in the offensive backfield. It makes offenses one dimensional.
We need a better push up the middle of the line to flush the QB to Bosa and Ingram. To a limited degree, we can get by with moving Bosa and Ingram inside on long down and distance situations, but a true 3 tech DT would really help on early downs. Philon is a pretty good guy, who can do some of that, but he hasn't stepped up to the point where he has proved to be more than a rotation guy. Liuget and Philon together make 1 decent DT in terms of total snaps, and we can get by with that. It will mostly depend on how expensive will they be to sign. If history is any example, some teams will probably throw money at one or both of them. As much as we want to upgrade over them, there are still a lot of teams worse off.
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I think Jones is our 2 gap 1T of the future. Steady block eater. Strong anchor. Can move guys around. Not the penetrator type of 3T. Ive been wanting an athletic freak at 3T for a while now. Jones sure did show that ability at SB practices last year. Schooled guys. Same with his teammate Hill. But i think his role will be living in that gap between the center and guard. Probably bring Phillon back and have him compete with a rookie. Maybe even Liuget comes back much cheaper. But i still think we draft a smaller(weight) penetrating 3T who can get through and disrupt pockets. Really would have ben nice to have that against the Pats. Get a MLB that can plug holes and take on OGs. And now the more i think about it I could see Telesco definitely bringing back Liuget. Jones and Liuget to start with a rookie developing and rotating. Perryman at MLB with a rookie developing and rotating. We have the money to bring our guys back and the draft picks to back those guys up with good talent and an eye towards the future.
Tillery reminds me a little of Hageman or Nkemdiche coming out. Athletic taller types. Need hand work. Dre Mont Jones is a project but very athletic. Its the back of round one. Gonna be hard to find a guy NFL ready. You cant expect 800 snaps from a rookie DT. So an athletic DT who is coachable makes sense.
When i start thinking about value in the back of round one snaps come into play a little bit. And as much as i want a savage DT it also makes sense if a player is there that can really eat snaps this year. Adderley is a guy. There are some OT/OG guys as well. A MLB would work. I love Mack but coming into this defense and calling it isnt easy. This is a tough D to learn. Thats why they will bring Perryman back. Familiarity.
Theres a 1000 ways to skin a cat. Im really hunkered down on the trenches this year. But round 1 could very well be a skill guy. Go trenches in round 2/3. To be in the back of round 1 this draft with our needs is a pretty good draft given whats available.
Lynn was adamant about drafting BPA. So we may be surprised with the pick. Especially if its non DT/OL/FS
Where we are drafting....we would be lucky to net a 2019 starter. These guys will need work. So you get those positions filled via FA and draft competition and let them fight for the spot. I want 2 run stuff MLBs on this team.Comment
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Found a sleeper at DT: Renell Wren, Arizona State. Draft Network says he's similar to Chris Jones:Originally posted by blueman View Post
"Physically, Renell Wren reminds me of Chris Jones with his unbelievable frame and length for the position. He's a little bit smaller than Jones, but even stylistically the two share some similarities, most notably in their first step and eye-popping raw power. But where Jones was better with his hands and plan of attack as a pass rusher out of college, Wren is still lacking in a lot of ways. Perhaps a move from nose tackle would help the promising defensive tackle, whose landing spot in the NFL might mean everything in determining a potential impact player or a career backup at the next level."
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See my mock.Originally posted by Topcat View Post
Found a sleeper at DT: Renell Wren, Arizona State. Draft Network says he's similar to Chris Jones:
"Physically, Renell Wren reminds me of Chris Jones with his unbelievable frame and length for the position. He's a little bit smaller than Jones, but even stylistically the two share some similarities, most notably in their first step and eye-popping raw power. But where Jones was better with his hands and plan of attack as a pass rusher out of college, Wren is still lacking in a lot of ways. Perhaps a move from nose tackle would help the promising defensive tackle, whose landing spot in the NFL might mean everything in determining a potential impact player or a career backup at the next level."
My notes on Renell.
91) RENELL WREN (DT) ASU
RSR. 6' 4 1/2'', 318#, 10'' HANDS, 33 7/8'' ARMS, 81'' WINGSPAN, 40YD - 5. 1, 10YS - 1.75, VJ - 32'', BJ - 9' 10'', 30 REPS @ 225, 3CONE - 7.65, 20S - 4.53. Renell is a big physical explosive beast! Played NT at ASU but fits best as a 3tech and passing situation NT. Very stout against run, + body control thru contact, excellent pad level play, exceptionally strong (still can get stronger), Ideal frame/length/size, ++ upfield explosion, can be a true backfield disruptor, resets LOS, active hands, hand placements/techniques are non existent -real area of opportunity here, attack plans need to be developed. Renell has the whole package and upside to be a dominant probowl caliber player. Is his work ethic, coachability, and football IQ up to it? I hope so! STARTING CALIBER PROSPECT w/IMPACT TRAITS.
:below:Last edited by like54ninjas; 03-07-2019, 08:32 PM.My 2021 Adopt-A-Bolt List
MikeDub
K9
Nasir
Tillery
Parham
ReedComment
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Fine, down with him or anybody who can penetrate up the middle, yeah baby.Comment
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Wow, Ninja, great! And seriously, I didn't even copy you! I came to the realization that at #28, most of the really good DT's will be gone, so I started scouting sleepers in the mid rounds and found Wren. I really like this kid! Almost always pushing the pocket! Pair him up with Boss and Ingram and we have a pocket collapsing trio!Originally posted by like54ninjas View PostComment
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Here's the Draft Network's Ledyard's analysis of Renell Wren, DT, Arizona State:
Get-off/Burst - Operates almost exclusively from a 4-point stance as a nose tackle and is rarely asked to just fire gaps, but gets off the ball extremely fast despite not gaining a ton of ground upfield. There is some variance to his first step, but the low points are still good get-offs, and the high points are elite, blow-up-a-play-from-the-snap explosive. Consistently fires out into his opponents and can re-set the line of scrimmage in an instant when his technique and pad level are right.
Leverage - Inconsistent in his pad level. At times fires off the ball low with arms extended to lock out his opponent. Other times will stand up straight off the ball and navigate slowly to a gap rather than firing low and looking to knife through contact. Can get walled off and moved around when he loses leverage despite his unbelievable power.
Hand Usage - Strike placement and timing are all over the place, but he does show the ability to lock out his opponent and bench press blockers off his frame in the run game. Raw power is crazy to watch at times, when pads and hands are right will drive blockers into the backfield and disrupt plays. Has the length and strength to be dominant at the point-of-attack with better attention to detail. As a pass rusher, almost fully in need of development with his hand usage.
Rush Plan/Counters - Almost never has a rush plan or works a move on his opponent. Bull rush defensive tackle who will occasionally flash an arm-over move to clear contact at the last second. Definition of a slow-burn pass rusher who doesn't think quickly on his feet to work counter moves into his attacks. Absolutely bully as a bull rusher, will bend opponents back but needs to be quicker to take advantage of their struggle with a secondary move. Tools are great, but this is an area of clear weakness.
Mental Processing/Block Recognition - Better in this area than I originally gave him credit for. Especially in games where he gets to play a lot, begins to get a good feel for how opponents are trying to attack him and will counter with good footwork. Has done well to scrape playside against zone concepts. Can get mauled by double teams or down blocks that he doesn't see coming. Finds the football through contact decently, but could do better at shedding quickly to pursue.
Range - Rumored to run a 4.85 40, and I think a penetrating role may reveal those traits even more. Doesn't look overly fast on tape, but has shown the ability to run down plays in pursuit. Clearly at least a solid athlete, but playing nose tackle so heavily at Arizona State didn't open him up to much of a run-and-chase evaluation.
Bend/Flexibility - Probably my biggest question mark with Wren. Wish I saw him work to the edge of his blocker more so I could see his turn to the pocket. I think he might be a little stiff from the flashes I've seen, certainly plays as a very linear rusher, but that could also be due to a lack of creativity.
Tackling - Hardly had any tackles in college, until emerging with 43 his senior year. Rotational player so only got a couple tackle opportunities a game, but I did not see any misses in the six games I watched.
Competitive Toughness - Ultra-physical and plays the game with an edge. Motor runs hot, will consistently show good pursuit skills and the desire to chip in on tackles.
Athleticism/Size - Probably one of the best frames of any player in the entire class, at any position. Absolutely stacked with muscle, weight room numbers at Arizona State are insane, puts a lot of time into his frame.
BEST TRAIT - Get-off/Power
WORST TRAIT - Rush Plan/Counters
RED FLAGS - None
Physically, Renell Wren reminds me of Chris Jones with his unbelievable frame and length for the position. He's a little bit smaller than Jones, but even stylistically the two share some similarities, most notably in their first step and eye-popping raw power. But where Jones was better with his hands and plan of attack as a pass rusher out of college, Wren is still lacking in a lot of ways. Perhaps a move from nose tackle would help the promising defensive tackle, whose landing spot in the NFL might mean everything in determining a potential impact player or a career backup at the next level.
https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/renell-wren
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Would you be happy with an Iowa TE, RB or a WR @ 28 ?Originally posted by Fleet View PostWe play modern Harball.Comment
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