Official 2015 Draft Discussion

[Steve]

Even if the injuries do end, it wouldn't hurt to have another guy like Clary who could start at several positions along the line. Whether it was injuries or salary cap related, you need to get in the habit of trying to be ahead of the game in terms of finding and developing talent.

It would also give us flexibility in who we can consider for drafting at other OL spots. Most teams are struggling with the injury thing these days, so guys who can be drafted at multiple spots may get valued a lot higher, especially in the upper-middle rounds. If we can add more guys who can play a couple of spots, then it allows us to potentially add a single position guy, especially someone like Hardwick at C. Other teams might devalue him, but that is just an opportunity for us, if the guy has good value at a single spot.

[Boltjolt]

Clary can play two positions along the OL and he sucks at one of those. I know they have respect for Clary but only if he signs way cheaper should they consider him.

He isn't that great and he has been beat the hec up lately.

[Fleet]

A better Clary would be perfect for this OL. And Clary as a backup would be even better imo.

[Antonio's Gates]

Clary will be dirt cheap, I don't see the downside in bringing him back.

[Panama]

Clary can play two positions along the OL and he sucks at one of those. I know they have respect for Clary but only if he signs way cheaper should they consider him.

He isn't that great and he has been beat the hec up lately.

I know there's been no formal announcement, but isn't Clary also retiring?

[Steve]

Again with the Clary thing, I think a big part of that is expectations. Clary always performed as a better then average RT, it's just that all but a couple of teams struggle at RT. Second, if you count up the number of mistakes it was actually fairly low, just that as an OT, he got called out on a lot of stuff, and a lot of what he got called out for was not necessarily his fault. Lastly, he got exposed badly in Norv's offense where he got no help, and Rivers was constantly holding the ball too long. In the new offense, with shorter passing, an emphasis on getting rid of the ball quicker and more of a emphasis on using formations and extra blockers assigned to help, it likely would have been a lot different outcome.

As far as his performance at OG, again, I went back and watched every snap he took at OG, and while there was room for improvement, he was a pretty good OG last year, and we missed him terribly. I would even go so far to say that this season would have turned out completely differently if he had been healthy. He was particuarly good at not allowing DT to penetrate and hit the RB or QB in the backfield which has been a huge problem this season.

In short, we don't need a road grader guy who mauls and destroys people, we need OL who can lock up and sustain blocks, and that was something Clary did well. Even if his hip forces him to retire, we could use him just to stick around and help Fluker, who has really not shown much progress this season and really seems to miss Clary's help.

[thelightningwill]

Again with the Clary thing, I think a big part of that is expectations. Clary always performed as a better then average RT, it's just that all but a couple of teams struggle at RT. Second, if you count up the number of mistakes it was actually fairly low, just that as an OT, he got called out on a lot of stuff, and a lot of what he got called out for was not necessarily his fault. Lastly, he got exposed badly in Norv's offense where he got no help, and Rivers was constantly holding the ball too long. In the new offense, with shorter passing, an emphasis on getting rid of the ball quicker and more of a emphasis on using formations and extra blockers assigned to help, it likely would have been a lot different outcome.

As far as his performance at OG, again, I went back and watched every snap he took at OG, and while there was room for improvement, he was a pretty good OG last year, and we missed him terribly. I would even go so far to say that this season would have turned out completely differently if he had been healthy. He was particuarly good at not allowing DT to penetrate and hit the RB or QB in the backfield which has been a huge problem this season.

In short, we don't need a road grader guy who mauls and destroys people, we need OL who can lock up and sustain blocks, and that was something Clary did well. Even if his hip forces him to retire, we could use him just to stick around and help Fluker, who has really not shown much progress this season and really seems to miss Clary's help.

I don't have Steve-like abilities, but Clary, as a right tackle, sucked ass for years. Sorry.
Decent guard for one season and sure could have helped us this season at that position.
But, right tackle? No. He sucked. I mean, for fuck's sake, if he was even close to being competent at tackle, we would have shifted him over to the more important left tackle position after McNeill started sucking. But, we didn't. Why? Because, as bad as McNeill was at the end, and as shitty as his replacements were (outside of the games Gaither played his first year with us, I'm talking worst left tackles in the league - possibly ever), the coaches knew Clary was just as bad or worse.

[Boltjolt]

I know there's been no formal announcement, but isn't Clary also retiring?

I haven't heard a thing about that so I dont know.

[Boltjolt]

Again with the Clary thing, I think a big part of that is expectations. Clary always performed as a better then average RT, it's just that all but a couple of teams struggle at RT. Second, if you count up the number of mistakes it was actually fairly low, just that as an OT, he got called out on a lot of stuff, and a lot of what he got called out for was not necessarily his fault. Lastly, he got exposed badly in Norv's offense where he got no help, and Rivers was constantly holding the ball too long. In the new offense, with shorter passing, an emphasis on getting rid of the ball quicker and more of a emphasis on using formations and extra blockers assigned to help, it likely would have been a lot different outcome.

As far as his performance at OG, again, I went back and watched every snap he took at OG, and while there was room for improvement, he was a pretty good OG last year, and we missed him terribly. I would even go so far to say that this season would have turned out completely differently if he had been healthy. He was particuarly good at not allowing DT to penetrate and hit the RB or QB in the backfield which has been a huge problem this season.

In short, we don't need a road grader guy who mauls and destroys people, we need OL who can lock up and sustain blocks, and that was something Clary did well. Even if his hip forces him to retire, we could use him just to stick around and help Fluker, who has really not shown much progress this season and really seems to miss Clary's help.

No he hasn't been a better than average RT and last year, with no Norv when he played RT when Fluker moved to LT he again was terrible.
That experiment was a disaster when Dunlap was hurt.

[Steve]

So, we have to have 2 elite OT. You a\guys are rich. At a time when we had holes galore, where were we supposed to go find these elite players, already developed and ready to go? Most RT in the league give up a similar number of plays to Clary and teams usually do a hell of a lot more to protect them and not expose them against top pass rushers. How many of the top LT prospects the last 2 years have started out playing RT, or went to a team that has already had a established pro bowl caliber LT?

Clary's mistakes are all just incredibly obvious and highlighted for everyone, if for no other reason then everyone loves to point them out for all to see. Most (even the ones who get a lot more love) OL committ far more mistakes, they just don't get called out for them. Again, just from watching the biggest upgrade between Fluker last year and Clary the years before, was how much forgiveness people were willing to give, and how efficiently other teams exploited Flukers mistakes. This year, Fluker is making a few more mistakes, but he is being exploited a lot more because teams know to

If you demand perfection from the OT, it means all our 1st round picks are pretty much going to have to go into drafting an OT. I means trading up into the top 5 or top 10, which means spending multiple 1st round picks. Most teams are willing to forgive some of those issues, allow some mistakes and then give their OT help (something we still don't do very much), and adjust the play calling accordingly, something we still don't do as much as most people think.

[Boltjolt]

Nobody is demanding perfection and nobody said we have to have two elite OTs. What we dont want is Clary at RT where he has stunk for years. He hasnt just stunk as a rookie or second year player, he has stunk for years and Fluker needs to get better as well if he doesnt want to get moved to RG. Fluker does get move forgiveness because he was a rookie and now a second year player where we saw Clary's act for a while.

Im not telling you anything new and you know what kind of player Clary is. He is the kind of player who should be good depth.....not a good starter and certainly not a good RT.

[thelightningwill]

BoltJolt is right. Steve-like abilities are not winning this argument.