Bolts: Not That Good Of A Defense?

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  • ChargersPowderBlue
    Registered Charger Fan
    • Aug 2019
    • 1827
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    Bolts: Not That Good Of A Defense?

    A lot of people think this team will have a top 5 defense. Looking at the total/overall defense only, where the team was ranked number 6, and the passing defense where they also had a good ranking, the homers will run with those. But they don't explain why the team went 5-11. Yeah James was injured, but the injury excuses are a cop-out. People thought this team was really talented. The team defense struggling the way it did proved otherwise. A team who is that talented would have been able to get things done despite their top player(s) being out. Depth plays a part in it, which is what this team seems to keep coming up short with. Mebane and and Thomas Davis were easy to blame. So was Dzubnar. All those guys are not a Charger anymore. There were more than those guys, and other players who were part of the problems that the 2019 defense had who are still here.

    Here is the 2019 defensive efficiency ranking. The team is ranked 21st. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...m-defense/2019

    Projected ranking for the defense in 2020. Also 21. https://www.lineups.com/nfl-team-rankings/defense

    The team was 28 in sacks. This despite having Bosa and Ingram. So what is the problem?

    The team was bad in four areas; third down defense, red zone defense, run stopping, and being last in the league in turnovers.

    Third down defense was a killer. The Chargers were 4th worst in the league on 3rd downs. Only the Redskins, Texans, and Cardinals were worse. The team had trouble getting off the field on third downs. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/sta...conversion-pct

    People don't realize how lucky this team got in their wins. In the Colts, Dolphins, and Bears games the opponent missed a couple of field goals. In the Dolphins game the defense didn't force the Miami to punt until the second half, in the third quarter. Then there were other games where the opponent missed on their field goals and the Chargers lost. Like the Lions game and the first Raiders game. They were that bad on third downs.

    Here are weaknesses of the team. Desmond King turns out to not be that good at cornerback. He lacks athleticism and speed to cover receivers who are good on the move. King got picked by opposing QBs and was targeted against a lot. Gus is replacing King with Chris Harris Jr. in the slot. Jenkins is adequate, but not who you want at free safety full time. Since Gus plans to go into a two deep safety scheme now, you have to hope Adderley is the starter. The defensive line is poor outside of Bosa and Ingram. It had a lot to do with why the team had trouble getting off the field on the third downs. Tillery got better in the last month of the season. He showed more of what he was capable of contrary to popular belief about him. The problem was not having enough speed on the edge and not much pass rush on the inside other than Ingram or Tillery.

    A lot of times Melvin Ingram lines up on the inside. Other times he'll line up on the edge. Depending on the situation where Bradley decides to play him. The other edge rushers are Bosa, Nwosu, and Rochell. Here's the problem. Rochell is more of a bull rusher, he doesn't have the speed at DE. He was a DT in his rookie season. You need speed at DE to beat the OT quicker and get to the QB faster. When Rochell is on the edge, you sacrifice speed on the edge. Especially if Bosa or Nwosu aren't on the field and at edge. Since Ingram and Bosa line up on all positions of the field, they get worn out and you need other guys to rotate in for them. If Ingram has to be on the edge, his pass rush threat on the inside is taken away, and you need other guys on the interior. Now as for the interior. Tillery gets a lot of blame, but like I said, he improved. And it'll take more than Tillery when it comes to the interior. Justin Jones isn't much of a pass rusher. He doesn't have the burst to be a successful one. Joseph can rush the passer, but he isn't like guys like Aaron Donald, Fletcher Cox, Deforest Buckner, and Geno Atkins. Square doesn't provide any pass rush, he's used more for run stopping, and btw he's a bad run stopper. The DT group is very clearly the worst unit on the defense. There's a lot wrong with it. And people wonder why we don't have a pass rush. Horrible at getting to the QB and opponents killing us.

    We acquired players this off-season. We signed Joseph and Harris Jr. They are aging players who are at the decline stage of their careers. Harris Jr. won't lock down on receivers like he did with the Broncos. Joseph won't get to the QB like he used to. They should still do well though. The bright spot about the Chargers defense is the linebacker group. Vigil should help if he's used right. Murray and Gilman were drafted, but it remains to be seen about them.

    I'll wrap this up. The defense had issues in many areas that contributed to the 5-11 record in 2019. This team still has weaknesses that plagued them last year. If this team still has problems in one of the areas mentioned, then now more people will know. The weaknesses I point out is the purpose of the thread. I'll be more willing to buy into the defense being that good if they clean up on those areas they've struggled in. I want to see this team hold an opponent to 0 points, then we can talk about the D being top 5.
  • Classic
    Hall Of Fame
    • Dec 2014
    • 1239
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    #2
    So if they are #1 in points allowed and have cleaned up their issues from last year. You won't consider them a "Top 5" defense because they didn't hold a team to 0 points? That's ridiculous and goalpost moving from the reasonable target of good defense or the clearly attainable Top 5 defense.

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    • gzubeck
      Ines Sainz = Jet Bait!
      • Jan 2019
      • 5479
      • Tucson, AZ
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      #3
      They're a top 5 defense if they play as a cohesive unit. If they play selfishly then they're a top 15 defense. Realistically, I'd take anything inside the top ten with much better impact in critical downs.
      Chiefs won the Superbowl with 10 Rookies....

      "Locked, Cocked, and ready to Rock!" Jim Harbaugh

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      • Heatmiser
        HarbaughHarrisonHeatMiser
        • Jun 2013
        • 4790
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        #4
        Good analysis. Shows the statistics don't always tell the story. Bradley has been here long enough to get the kind of players he likes/needs for his system. So improved results should be reasonably expected.

        I feel about the defense like I do about Rivers. I love them all and they are plenty good, but when the chips are down and you really need them to come through to win a tough game, they let you down most of the time. The defense does not take games over like the Ravens or Seahawks or Bears of the past when they were really good. And Rivers is not like Brady or Manning or even Roethlesburger where you know if there are under 2 minutes left and they have the ball and are trailing that a win is inevitable. So if you want to be elite, forget stats for me....can you be elite when you need to be to WIN?

        TG
        Like, how am I a traitor? Your team are traitors.

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        • sonorajim
          Registered Charger Fan
          • Jan 2019
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          #5
          Injury "excuses" do get old but it is never the less true that our #2, #3 guys are usually not at the same level as the starters. 2019 had issues.
          Mebane was basically over the hill, Joseph is an upgrade.
          Tillery was a R who was rehabbing a shoulder, had little TC or preseason.
          Jones was OK, nothing special in his 2nd season.
          Thomas Davis was over the hill, Murray is an upgrade
          Perryman missed too many games, was slowed by imjuries. He's back and we found that Tranquill is a more than adequate replacement.
          Phillips was missed (IR) and is gone. We have an abundance of candidates to replace him, TBD.
          DJ missed most of 2019. Healthy now. Big gap to #2 is unavoidable, he's that good.
          King struggled at slot CB, Harris is one of the best.
          Jenkins (FS) and Davis (CB) are young players who appear to be quality starters.

          True there are some "IF's". IF our elites ( Bosa, James) stay healthy, IF top vet FAs ( Joseph, Harris) play at or near expected level, IF Tillery is a quality 3T, IF Murray is all that and IF Gus dials up more pressures, gets more takeaways.

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          • sonorajim
            Registered Charger Fan
            • Jan 2019
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            #6
            Originally posted by Heatmiser View Post
            Good analysis. Shows the statistics don't always tell the story. Bradley has been here long enough to get the kind of players he likes/needs for his system. So improved results should be reasonably expected.

            I feel about the defense like I do about Rivers. I love them all and they are plenty good, but when the chips are down and you really need them to come through to win a tough game, they let you down most of the time. The defense does not take games over like the Ravens or Seahawks or Bears of the past when they were really good. And Rivers is not like Brady or Manning or even Roethlesburger where you know if there are under 2 minutes left and they have the ball and are trailing that a win is inevitable. So if you want to be elite, forget stats for me....can you be elite when you need to be to WIN?

            TG
            Elite is always arguable, Winner, not so much.
            If we're talking about having the D on the field with a small lead and getting a stop seals the "W"?
            Obviously you want to avoid that by what you did in the previous 58 minutes, but when there everybody has to do their job. Screwups kill, elite players force mistakes.

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            • sonorajim
              Registered Charger Fan
              • Jan 2019
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              #7
              Originally posted by sonorajim View Post

              Elite is always arguable, Winner, not so much.
              If we're talking about having the D on the field with a small lead and getting a stop seals the "W"?
              Obviously you want to avoid that by what you did in the previous 58 minutes, but when there everybody has to do their job. Screwups kill, elite players force mistakes.
              I still remember Seau bursting through the line and taking down Turner the Burner for a loss in our loss to NE in the AFCC.

              Comment

              • bartman83642
                Registered Charger Fan
                • Jan 2019
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                #8
                I think something that played a big factor was the O put a lot of extra pressure on the D. Being ranked 29th in giveaways and putting opposing teams back on the field so often was a killer.

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                • Pointyearedog
                  Humble Chargers Fan
                  • May 2017
                  • 235
                  • Golden Hill
                  • Medical Devices Operations
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Classic View Post
                  So if they are #1 in points allowed and have cleaned up their issues from last year. You won't consider them a "Top 5" defense because they didn't hold a team to 0 points? That's ridiculous and goalpost moving from the reasonable target of good defense or the clearly attainable Top 5 defense.
                  Yup, just don't let that 4th and 39 get you again...
                  "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." --Frank Zappa

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                  • powderblueboy
                    Registered Charger Fan
                    • Jul 2017
                    • 9065
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                    #10
                    I like this thread...someone forcing others to explain why this could be a top defense (instead of average).

                    Last year, missing James hurt a lot; but frankly, they just didn't generate enough pressure. I'm not certain why that will change this year.

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                    • powderblueboy
                      Registered Charger Fan
                      • Jul 2017
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                      #11
                      Originally posted by sonorajim View Post

                      I still remember Seau bursting through the line and taking down Turner the Burner for a loss in our loss to NE in the AFCC.
                      Huge play in the game. Forced another field goal

                      Comment

                      • powderblueboy
                        Registered Charger Fan
                        • Jul 2017
                        • 9065
                        • Send PM

                        #12
                        Originally posted by sonorajim View Post
                        Injury "excuses" do get old but it is never the less true that our #2, #3 guys are usually not at the same level as the starters. 2019 had issues.
                        Mebane was basically over the hill, Joseph is an upgrade.
                        Tillery was a R who was rehabbing a shoulder, had little TC or preseason.
                        Jones was OK, nothing special in his 2nd season.
                        Thomas Davis was over the hill, Murray is an upgrade
                        Perryman missed too many games, was slowed by imjuries. He's back and we found that Tranquill is a more than adequate replacement.
                        Phillips was missed (IR) and is gone. We have an abundance of candidates to replace him, TBD.
                        DJ missed most of 2019. Healthy now. Big gap to #2 is unavoidable, he's that good.
                        King struggled at slot CB, Harris is one of the best.
                        Jenkins (FS) and Davis (CB) are young players who appear to be quality starters.

                        True there are some "IF's". IF our elites ( Bosa, James) stay healthy, IF top vet FAs ( Joseph, Harris) play at or near expected level, IF Tillery is a quality 3T, IF Murray is all that and IF Gus dials up more pressures, gets more takeaways.
                        Too many ifs...

                        The big if is whether the middle of the D will be disruptive: joseph, tillery, jones - two of those guys have to come through.
                        If teams can consistently handle them with one player, it will be a long year.

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