Bolts: Not That Good Of A Defense?

[Steve]

Part of the problem with the scoreboard last year was poor ST play leaving teams with good to great field position, and offense inconsitently moving the ball. The D wasn't great, but the problem was all over the roster, and the D was the strongest unit on the team, and it isn't even close. Without Rivers, they will have to carry an even bigger load. They do have a lot of our recent draft captial and FA help lately.

Last year the DT were just plain awful, Thomas Davis was a step slow, and the secondary was a mess with injuries at SS, dime and CB.

Linval Joseph has been added at NT, but is only a run stuffer at this stage and can't play that many snaps. Tillery, Jones, Broughton or PJ Johnson need to step up and develop into a good 3 tech DT. All have shown flashes in college, but none has done enough in the NFL yet. Even if it is as a committee, but the DT play is holding the D back. IWth as much money as we have invested in Bosa and Ingram, the Dt have to do their share, or it just pisses the potential off the edge away.

Murray and Tranquill are young players with the kind of wheels we need at LB. If we can keep them clean, then they should be an assett. Behind them we have a somewhat talented mismash of White, Perryman, and Vigil, but none had a very good season last year. All seem like backups at this point. Nwosu and Egbule are run down 34 DE/OLB types who can play over the TE and control the blocks, or line up at LEO.

CB was a problem last year. Hayward is a great off man or zone coverage player getting press CB money. Davis has the size and speed to be a press CB, but has never develop the consistency in zone, so it seems unlikely he will be able to play on an island. Harris excels inside, but is getting paid outside money, and that is where the need is. King had an off season, and is not a good fit outside, but is still a very good inside player, and a major mismatch for the defense over most slot receivers. It's interesting to note that our top 3 CB (Hayward, King and Harris) are the only ones under 6'. It is almost as if they hope that they can bring in masses of CB off the street to find some press man CB.

The obvious way to use our CB best is to use Harris and Hayward outside in the base D. In the dime Davis would come on and move Harris into the slot. However unless most NFL offenses step back and turn back the clock to 1980, that leaves Davis playing a significant amount of snaps outside, where he has been picked on so much the last 2 years.

S was a disaster last year. When James went out, and Phillips got hurt, the 4th and 5th S (Watkins and Teamer) were not up to the task. Adderley needs to show the mobility and instincts he showed in college, and displace Jenkins. Jenkins is a good deep coverage player (see pff), but misses a lot of tackles in run support and commits stupid penalties. He is much better as a SS up near the box, which would make him the obvious replacement for Phillips, if Adderley can step up, and Jenkins can hold off King in that role.

[sonorajim]

Too many ifs...

The big if is whether the middle of the D will be disruptive: joseph, tillery, jones - two of those guys have to come through.
If teams can consistently handle them with one player, it will be a long year.

Nothing is certain until after the fact. I agree that IF the D interior looks like Mebane- Jones -Tillery of last year it'll be tough. Worth noting: the 2019 LBs, SS and slot CB were arguably worse. That's another area that was addressed but remains an IF until they get the job done.
The DL, E- NT- 3T- Leo, all have to play well for the defense to be noticably better than avg.
Joey is an elite player. (if the rest play well)
Joseph is a stud NT. (if he's 80% (or better) of the Top 100 player that he was in Min)
Tillery is a very good 3T pass rusher ( if he lives up to his 6-6 athletic college promise)
Ingram is an incredible athlete at LEO (if the rest to play well)

The depth ain't too shabby in a rotation but they aren't our best starters.

[sonorajim]

Part of the problem with the scoreboard last year was poor ST play leaving teams with good to great field position, and offense inconsitently moving the ball. The D wasn't great, but the problem was all over the roster, and the D was the strongest unit on the team, and it isn't even close. Without Rivers, they will have to carry an even bigger load. They do have a lot of our recent draft captial and FA help lately.

Last year the DT were just plain awful, Thomas Davis was a step slow, and the secondary was a mess with injuries at SS, dime and CB.

Linval Joseph has been added at NT, but is only a run stuffer at this stage and can't play that many snaps. Tillery, Jones, Broughton or PJ Johnson need to step up and develop into a good 3 tech DT. All have shown flashes in college, but none has done enough in the NFL yet. Even if it is as a committee, but the DT play is holding the D back. IWth as much money as we have invested in Bosa and Ingram, the Dt have to do their share, or it just pisses the potential off the edge away.

Murray and Tranquill are young players with the kind of wheels we need at LB. If we can keep them clean, then they should be an assett. Behind them we have a somewhat talented mismash of White, Perryman, and Vigil, but none had a very good season last year. All seem like backups at this point. Nwosu and Egbule are run down 34 DE/OLB types who can play over the TE and control the blocks, or line up at LEO.
.
~~~~
S was a disaster last year. When James went out, and Phillips got hurt, the 4th and 5th S (Watkins and Teamer) were not up to the task. Adderley needs to show the mobility and instincts he showed in college, and displace Jenkins. Jenkins is a good deep coverage player (see pff), but misses a lot of tackles in run support and commits stupid penalties. He is much better as a SS up near the box, which would make him the obvious replacement for Phillips, if Adderley can step up, and Jenkins can hold off King in that role.

If Linval gives us 30 solid run stuff snaps per game, that's a big step up from Mebane. Pass rush from NT is nice but mostly I want control between the OGs.
Tillery has to have a fully healthy shoulder, a great strength program, top coaching, focus & desire. Basically 6-6 raw clay. If he's all-in, penetration by a guy his size & length is disruptive to a passer whether he gets there or not. I expect obvious improvement.
Murray & Tranquill offer talent at what has been a major weakness.
Adderley looks like a superior FS/CB candidate.
James is a beast. We missed him very much.

Training camp & scrimmages will see some chips fall in place.

[chargeroo]

I'll get on board with this defense when I see them getting 3 and outs and not wilting in the fourth quarter. Up until then, I simply do not trust our defense. That said, the additions to the defense Linval, Adderly and the return of James plus the rookie LB, Murray, gives them the potential to get those three and outs this year and hold a lead in the fourth quarter - but, I want to see it before I believe it.

[Steve]

I like this thread...someone forcing others to explain why this could be a top defense (instead of average).

Last year, missing James hurt a lot; but frankly, they just didn't generate enough pressure. I'm not certain why that will change this year.

It also hurt not having James up near the line. Teams had to scheme away from him 2 years ago, but last year went back to doing whatever they wanted. To some degree, playing D is about dictating what an offense can do, and without all our top guns on D, we don't require offenses to do that. With everyone back, they do at least have to account for more bodies.

[Steve]

If Linval gives us 30 solid run stuff snaps per game, that's a big step up from Mebane. Pass rush from NT is nice but mostly I want control between the OGs.
Tillery has to have a fully healthy shoulder, a great strength program, top coaching, focus & desire. Basically 6-6 raw clay. If he's all-in, penetration by a guy his size & length is disruptive to a passer whether he gets there or not. I expect obvious improvement.
Murray & Tranquill offer talent at what has been a major weakness.
Adderley looks like a superior FS/CB candidate.
James is a beast. We missed him very much.

Training camp & scrimmages will see some chips fall in place.

However, Tillery-Broughton-Jones-PJ Johnson all could have really used OTA's to get a lot of quality work in, and they are way behind this offseason.

There are normally 70-75 offensive plays in a game. If Joseph gets 30 snaps at NT spot, we still need the rest to combine for 110-120 plays, with a few of those going to Ingram and/or Bosa on 3rd and long.

As far as run defense vs pass defense, they can start with either as far as I am concerned. They were all inconsistent in both areas. If you look at the PFF grades, the young DT are slightly better as run defenders than pass rushers, except for Tillery who was better at pass rushing than run defense, but truth is none of them was adding quality snaps in either area. THey all have the potential to be good players. The tools are there, but that only matters if they can put it together.

[dmac_bolt]

Part of the problem with the scoreboard last year was poor ST play leaving teams with good to great field position, and offense inconsitently moving the ball. The D wasn't great, but the problem was all over the roster, and the D was the strongest unit on the team, and it isn't even close. Without Rivers, they will have to carry an even bigger load. They do have a lot of our recent draft captial and FA help lately.

Last year the DT were just plain awful, Thomas Davis was a step slow, and the secondary was a mess with injuries at SS, dime and CB.

Linval Joseph has been added at NT, but is only a run stuffer at this stage and can't play that many snaps. Tillery, Jones, Broughton or PJ Johnson need to step up and develop into a good 3 tech DT. All have shown flashes in college, but none has done enough in the NFL yet. Even if it is as a committee, but the DT play is holding the D back. IWth as much money as we have invested in Bosa and Ingram, the Dt have to do their share, or it just pisses the potential off the edge away.

Murray and Tranquill are young players with the kind of wheels we need at LB. If we can keep them clean, then they should be an assett. Behind them we have a somewhat talented mismash of White, Perryman, and Vigil, but none had a very good season last year. All seem like backups at this point. Nwosu and Egbule are run down 34 DE/OLB types who can play over the TE and control the blocks, or line up at LEO.

CB was a problem last year. Hayward is a great off man or zone coverage player getting press CB money. Davis has the size and speed to be a press CB, but has never develop the consistency in zone, so it seems unlikely he will be able to play on an island. Harris excels inside, but is getting paid outside money, and that is where the need is. King had an off season, and is not a good fit outside, but is still a very good inside player, and a major mismatch for the defense over most slot receivers. It's interesting to note that our top 3 CB (Hayward, King and Harris) are the only ones under 6'. It is almost as if they hope that they can bring in masses of CB off the street to find some press man CB.

The obvious way to use our CB best is to use Harris and Hayward outside in the base D. In the dime Davis would come on and move Harris into the slot. However unless most NFL offenses step back and turn back the clock to 1980, that leaves Davis playing a significant amount of snaps outside, where he has been picked on so much the last 2 years.

S was a disaster last year. When James went out, and Phillips got hurt, the 4th and 5th S (Watkins and Teamer) were not up to the task. Adderley needs to show the mobility and instincts he showed in college, and displace Jenkins. Jenkins is a good deep coverage player (see pff), but misses a lot of tackles in run support and commits stupid penalties. He is much better as a SS up near the box, which would make him the obvious replacement for Phillips, if Adderley can step up, and Jenkins can hold off King in that role.

James absence was a problem as he is good enough to cover up some other weaknesses. The defense last year had many good pieces And overall was not a bad defense. but it had a hollow core with key weakness up the middle at interior DL and LB. many saw that before the season. Tillery never got up to speed. Davis racked up tackle stats but was slow and behind the play, making tackles after big gains. Mebane was done before the first snap. Inability to stop the rush forces the back 7 to take more risks, leading to exposure That a good offense can spot and attack. Overall stats could be ok but in crunch time they were

Chargers have strengthened those two core weaknesses with Murray and the FA pick (forget name, not goggling it). Secondary is ok not great but if Tillery comes on And that group overall can win the point of attack more, Murray and Tranq (who i love) form a strong duo, and that Adderley gets well and becomes that centerfieider they need to allow them to deploy James up to the LOS more, it could be significantly better. I see the pieces. Hayward and Harris just need to not get toasted crisp all the time and its Top 5. A lot of ifs in there ... But pieces are there on paper.

[wu-dai clan]

gusD has addressed this issue with specificity.
He did not have confidence in our complete group in coverage.
That is why he did not blitz.
Enter CHJ, Nasir, and Derwin.
gusD says we will now bring more pressure by design.
And don't forget that Derwin is a key pass rusher, too.

[boldarblood]

gusD has addressed this issue with specificity.
He did not have confidence in our complete group in coverage.
That is why he did not blitz.
Enter CHJ, Nasir, and Derwin.
gusD says we will now bring more pressure by design.
And don't forget that Derwin is a key pass rusher, too.

We blitzed 13,7% of the time for dead last in 2019, 2018 was 17% of the time for 29th only ahead of the Lions at 16.9 and Eagles at 16. (2018 Ravens lead at 39,6 and 54.9 for 2019 league highs)

I'm not convinced that he's going to address the issue. Historically he has been very conservative in blitzing.

[sonorajim]

However, Tillery-Broughton-Jones-PJ Johnson all could have really used OTA's to get a lot of quality work in, and they are way behind this offseason.

There are normally 70-75 offensive plays in a game. If Joseph gets 30 snaps at NT spot, we still need the rest to combine for 110-120 plays, with a few of those going to Ingram and/or Bosa on 3rd and long.

As far as run defense vs pass defense, they can start with either as far as I am concerned. They were all inconsistent in both areas. If you look at the PFF grades, the young DT are slightly better as run defenders than pass rushers, except for Tillery who was better at pass rushing than run defense, but truth is none of them was adding quality snaps in either area. THey all have the potential to be good players. The tools are there, but that only matters if they can put it together.

Mebane played @ 35 snaps, not sure how many runs he stuffed, which is what I referred to but not close to 30. Defense plays @ 70 snaps. Less if they're doing well. Linval should be fine with @ 40 snaps or more if needed. Give him fewer reps, kids more when the game is in the bag.
Square is reliable on a limited basis and knows what he's doing. Don't leave him out there but he can make plays in a rotation.
Jones & Broughton are meat & potatoes depth. Big, young DTs with some apparent potential.
Tillery is cast in the 3T pass rush role and looks the part, needs to step up now that he's had a healthy offseason. Not as worried about his run D now that we have some LBs & SS.
Gus & Giff absolutely need a good plan for them. Training & game reps. We'll need the vet experience without wearing them out. The youngsters need reps. Ten days 'till camp.

[wu-dai clan]

We blitzed 13,7% of the time for dead last in 2019, 2018 was 17% of the time for 29th only ahead of the Lions at 16.9 and Eagles at 16. (2018 Ravens lead at 39,6 and 54.9 for 2019 league highs)

I'm not convinced that he's going to address the issue. Historically he has been very conservative in blitzing.

?? The goal is to approve the atrocious turnover ratio.
That can only be done by creating more heat on QBs,
as gusD announced in May.

[boldarblood]

?? The goal is to approve the atrocious turnover ratio.
That can only be done by creating more heat on QBs,
as gusD announced in May.

I'll believe it when I see it. I am not a big fan of Bradley, I think his defense is a bit antiquated. I think we have the talent to do it, I wish we had a better DC. I'd love to have someone like Wade Phillips have a crack at this talent.