For just once in my miserable life as a Chargers fan

[richpjr]

what point were you not debating?

Go back and look at his post if you really want to know.

[oneinchpunch]

Go back and look at his post if you really want to know.

Want to know what?

[blahblahblah]

If this feeling flows both ways?

[Panama]

Stop derailing my thread!

This thread is to commiserate with each other over our shit trenches!

You know just once I would like to see this team be dominant on both sides of the line. Well, we have been in the past, but then we had shit for QB and other skill positions. Just once I would like to see this team be talented across the board.

[Panama]

Do you feel that Te'o has been productive? As for TT I just point out that he has had only two picks that have contributed significantly out of his first two drafts. If I am wrong there then please expand. Floyd has been huge for us this year, denying that is rather stupid I think. I don't think I am off the reservation in saying he has been our best WR. Royal, after his early year problems, has come up with some big plays as well. And I didn't say Allen was a bad player. In fact I said he should get his next contract (be here for the next 4-5 years IIRC) but we need to start thinking of who we will put on the opposite side of him (more a point to whether or not Floyd and Royal are in our future plans). He hasn't really shown a big step up from last year however. As for Butler I don't know whether the issue is with him of with his supporting cast. Our defensive front 7 has more holes than Swiss cheese right now and the last time I looked TT hasn't really made upgrading it (specifically in the DL) a priority.

I look at the team as it is now and what it will be next year, the year after that and so on and so forth with a goal of winning a SB. I never thought the team this year was really a SB caliber team and lately it has been exposed as not being that. To that end I don't think Denver will win a SB this year despite spending all the money to do so, though they are definitely better all around that the Chargers. Right now I think the team will decline unless they go heavily into FA like Denver did. I did point out the positions that we will need to upgrade in the next year or two though it is a repeat of pretty much what I said two years ago. So far I don't think our drafts have been as good as they need to be to offset the losses we should be expecting. I did hate the trade up for Te'o and, though I do think Atta-choo-choo could develop into a decent player, I have issues trading 4th round picks when you have an old team that needs to get younger. We are back to the point where we are looking at the waiver wire to fill our roster at the end of training camp.

I think the only issues I can really take with the content of your post are two, and both carry qualifications:

(1) This season, Te'o has been extremely productive when healthy. Of course, since he hasn't been healthy, he hasn't been productive.

(2) I think Telesco's first few drafts have been superlative, but of course some of the late-round fliers didn't work out and the marquis picks have been oft injured. I feel confident, based on the results of his first two drafts and subsequent FA periods, that Telesco will address the holes we can expect to have in future seasons.

[MakoShark]

TT in review:
2 years.
14 picks. Traded 2 of those away. 3 have been cut.
1 (S. Williams) has missed an entire season injured.
3 (Te'o, Verrett & Attaochu) have missed significant time injured.
1 (Fluker) has been a starter from day 1.
1 (Allen) was a steal and has become a starter.
3 (Watt, T. Williams & Carrethers) are playing in platoon roles.

Looks kinda meh to me when you lay it all out. I liked the early picks TT made and its not like TT had a crystal ball to predict all the injuries, so I give him that. At least he didn't make a Larry English type pick that was made to look worse when the high pick couldn't get on the field. I didn't like the trade up for Te'o. Said so at the time, but was willing to let it play out. Bad luck or bad pick? Who knows for sure at this point, but I'm leaning towards both. TT's drafts look good on paper, but are playing out as average right now, IMO.

[richpjr]

Want to know what?

What point I'm not debating.

[homeless simpson]

TT in review:
2 years.
14 picks. Traded 2 of those away. 3 have been cut.
1 (S. Williams) has missed an entire season injured.
3 (Te'o, Verrett & Attaochu) have missed significant time injured.
1 (Fluker) has been a starter from day 1.
1 (Allen) was a steal and has become a starter.
3 (Watt, T. Williams & Carrethers) are playing in platoon roles.

Looks kinda meh to me when you lay it all out. I liked the early picks TT made and its not like TT had a crystal ball to predict all the injuries, so I give him that. At least he didn't make a Larry English type pick that was made to look worse when the high pick couldn't get on the field. I didn't like the trade up for Te'o. Said so at the time, but was willing to let it play out. Bad luck or bad pick? Who knows for sure at this point, but I'm leaning towards both. TT's drafts look good on paper, but are playing out as average right now, IMO.

biggest free agent pickup was a bust and added more dead cap space. probably spent a bit too much on old freeney. added Donald Brown (not a position of need) and not getting much out of him. added Flowers (also not necessarily a high position of need) has been productive when healthy but not always healthy. signing Richard Marshall twice. hindsight game, at least one of the traded picks could've been used on trenches or the money from flowers, dbrown, Marshall could have been used on a fa OL....

BUT, minus all the injuries the moves themselves aren't bad choices. except TT made the same decision as the guy he replaced, figured the OL was good enough and invested picks and free agent money elsewhere. both so far, in hindsight, gambled wrong.

[TTK]

I don't understand people ripping TT for the o-line. Hardwick may have been iffy to make it through the whole season after what happened to him last year but he resigned Orhnburger, who played very well in his spot last year when called on and that was regarded as a good signing. Could he see Orhnburger also getting injured and then his backup going on IR? It's just bad luck with injuries. Clary's injury. Fluker's injury. Reinhart regressing. Harris looked like the light bulb was coming on last season but he regressed too and had to be cut. He drafted Watt to help but there's just so many positions that need upgrading and they didn't have a whole lot of cap room to begin with. When you have injuries/bad play at four of the five spots on the o-line, no team has the depth to overcome all that.

[sandiego17]

...

Te'o has been the best ILB when healthy. You do realize Butler missed more games that Te'o in his first couple seasons, one was wiped out completely. As far as drafts go, judging them in the same seaon or 1 year out is silly. Rivers didn't contribute shit his first two years, is he a bad pick? Maybe according to you, but most impartial observers would disagree, great player. Allen is better than both Floyd and Royal, denying that is both 'stupid' and completely biased, and not sure what kind of 'step up' you're looking for. He's the leading, #1 receiver on the team, still and the opposite guy is no longer 3rd round bust Vincent Brown, but an actual capable player. I love the Butler excuse, it might not be him because the other guys suck (although he's the 'star'), yet that same excuse doesn't hold for your personal whipping boy whose been better than Butler. I have no problem with trading 4th round picks to move up in the draft and get a player you like. I don't buy the old roster thing one bit, you can cut Freeney, Johnson, Floyd and Royal and bring in a few rookies and drastically change the age, but does that improve the team? As far as filling the roster with waiver wire guys, you do realize the team is still paying for desperation move guys like Gaither and Meechump, yet still competing, winning more games than they're losing and winning road playoff games. You didn't see the wins coming, let alone playoffs. Lets see what TT can do when those guys are off the books and his drafts are more than a year old.

Still, Rich has a valid point in regards to the timing of your return. Disappearing when the team is doing well and only returning when the team is on a 3 game losing streak and coming off a horrible loss is a bit weak, IMO anyway.

[KNSD]

Would like to see a team assembled that is dominant in the trenches. Just once, and let the chips fall where they may.

1993-4 Super Bowl team was dominant in the trenches.

[KNSD]

funny how after losses blame it on Norv and aj....and getting to the playoffs last year and the win streak this year it's "we're so drastically removed from the norv/aj years"

I just want to say that the team is SO MUCH BETTER NOW THAN WITH NORV/AJ. Best thing the Chargers ever did was get rid of those two guys. Three game losing streak be damned.

The front office is a team now, not one guy. And the team is a TEAM too. Rivers is alive today because Norv was sent packing along with his 7 step drops.