Future With Lynn?

[Guest]

In the grand scheme it don't matter.

It won't bring anything more for the team than winning four straight. He has every rookie record except most yards.... Which nobody will care outside our fans.

Lynn left the door open for his QB not to be OROY as Jefferson broke the rookie receiving yards record today despite needing 111 yards to get there. But I guess that is what happens when a player's (Jefferson's) head coach does not have his head up his ass.

[Critty]

It all depends how they looked at things.

What were the expectations?
Win division. I'm sure it was a goal. But did they actually think in year 1 after Rivers left that they would overtake the Cheifs. I'm going to say no. Did they think Herbert would end up OROY. How do they view some of the injury. As a reason things weren't as good or just an excuse. Do they think regardless of the HC we need our stars like Bosa and Ingram getting 10 plus sacks each. Does that make them less likely to blame Lynn for defense deficiencies. Did they expect more play and production from Pouncey, Turner and Bulaga. Does that make them less likely to blame Lynn for the ups and downs.
Did they already go into this season, especially with no pre season thinking this is a mulligan year for the HC who has 1 year left on contract. Are they still happy with him for winning so many games in 1st two seasons in LA. Do they see the 33-31 record as a positive. Do they feel, other than some tough losses, the transition from Rivers to Herbert went better than they could have hoped for. Did they find this 4-0 ending and 5-2 over last 7 games as a positive thing going into 2021.
If they have strong feeling that Lynn is still the right guy for this franchise. If they feel that the foundation set by Lynn is a good one and deserving of 1 more season. Then seems very likely Lynn is here in 2021.

But if they feel he failed to live up to expectations. If they think he doesn't have the ability to adapt and get more out of a team that even with injury and a rookie QB, that this was still a playoff caliber roster but Lynn mismanaged it. Then I would think he would be gone. Why keep him if you truly feel he got in the way of making the playoffs.

We shall see tomorrow how they saw the year.
:coffee:

[Guest]

Brady still runs QB sneaks. I don't agree with you on that. If you don't want him to get hurt, sit him in this meaningless game.
It's all experience for him. Getting a yards record isn't getting him experience more than managing a game that we actually have a nice lead in the fourth quarter. I think that's the first one this season.

Experience? He was playing against KC's B unit, so I do not think the "experience" had great value versus a once in a lifetime record opportunity that was easily within the team's grasp.

[like54ninjas]

I don’t believe Lynn is unfair or discriminatory. I definitely don’t believe he was sticking it to Herbert. If he did, then the TD record was more important than the passing yards. I believe Lynn is just stubborn in his offensive philosophy regardless of who his QB is. And he has an old school approach to everything including redshirting a rookie QB. Which is something a lot of head coaches (including the good ones) do in this league. If Lynn was as shallow as you said, there definitely wouldn’t be this outpouring of support from the players. They would see right through it.

Spot on.
I concur.

[like54ninjas]

So long
Farewell
Auf weidersehen
Goodbye

I know that song.

[Berserker76]

They may still fire him. Both Norv and AJ were let go on a Monday. McCoy on the other hand was fired that very Sunday. They probably respect Lynn more than McCoy.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...urner-aj-smith

Just to set the record straight, I'm hoping that Lynn is gone along with Gus.

[like54ninjas]

[richpjr]

If Lynn is fired (please!), I hope I never have to hear someone under the age of 80 call grown football players "young men" again.

[Xenos]

May just be his confidence showing through. Or may be that Glazer’s wrong.

[gzubeck]

I know that song.

Sound of Music! Song at end of movie I think.

[Xenos]

Just to set the record straight, I'm hoping that Lynn is gone along with Gus.

I was trying to address your concerns about Lynn not being fired tonight. And your fears that waiting til Monday means the Spanos was going to keep him. It’s still 50/50 at this moment IMO even though I hope Glazer is right.

[Xenos]

It all depends how they looked at things.

What were the expectations?
Win division. I'm sure it was a goal. But did they actually think in year 1 after Rivers left that they would overtake the Cheifs. I'm going to say no. Did they think Herbert would end up OROY. How do they view some of the injury. As a reason things weren't as good or just an excuse. Do they think regardless of the HC we need our stars like Bosa and Ingram getting 10 plus sacks each. Does that make them less likely to blame Lynn for defense deficiencies. Did they expect more play and production from Pouncey, Turner and Bulaga. Does that make them less likely to blame Lynn for the ups and downs.
Did they already go into this season, especially with no pre season thinking this is a mulligan year for the HC who has 1 year left on contract. Are they still happy with him for winning so many games in 1st two seasons in LA. Do they see the 33-31 record as a positive. Do they feel, other than some tough losses, the transition from Rivers to Herbert went better than they could have hoped for. Did they find this 4-0 ending and 5-2 over last 7 games as a positive thing going into 2021.
If they have strong feeling that Lynn is still the right guy for this franchise. If they feel that the foundation set by Lynn is a good one and deserving of 1 more season. Then seems very likely Lynn is here in 2021.

But if they feel he failed to live up to expectations. If they think he doesn't have the ability to adapt and get more out of a team that even with injury and a rookie QB, that this was still a playoff caliber roster but Lynn mismanaged it. Then I would think he would be gone. Why keep him if you truly feel he got in the way of making the playoffs.

We shall see tomorrow how they saw the year.
:coffee:

I think Lynn’s unfortunate luck occurred when Herbert started showing what he was capable of. It just made his weaknesses magnified even more. If Tyrod had been the starting QB and we had a losing season, Lynn chances of being fired would have been much lower. Now ownership has to wrestle with if Lynn is not only the right coach for this team but most importantly for Herbert. Popper actually had a good write up about the situation.

https://theathletic.com/2270184/2020/12/18/chargers-justin-herbert-anthony-lynn/

Popper: Is Anthony Lynn the best coach to maximize Justin Herbert’s talent?

Daniel Popper
The Chargers have a decision to make, one that will determine the trajectory of their organization for years and quite possibly decades.

It boils down to one question: Is Anthony Lynn the head coach who will get the absolute most out of Justin Herbert?

This seems like a rather simple proposition. Yes or no? If the answer is yes, then retain Lynn for 2021. If the answer is no, then move on and, in all likelihood, have your pick of any candidate.

But it is not that simple. There is so much to weigh and consider to come to the correct conclusion. And the Chargers brain trust, from owner Dean Spanos to president of football operations John Spanos to general manager Tom Telesco, must come to the correct conclusion. A wasted year could be the difference between Super Bowl triumph and an egregious squandered opportunity.

Herbert is a franchise quarterback. Full stop. No qualifiers are necessary. He proved that without a shred of doubt in Thursday night’s 30-27 overtime win over the Raiders in Las Vegas — a victory that snapped the Chargers’ nine-game AFC West losing streak.

Wide receivers Keenan Allen and Mike Williams were both non-factors because of injuries. It did not matter. Herbert, with his rocket arm and turf-eating strides, carved up the Raiders defense like a server at a Brazilian steakhouse. He finished 22 of 32 passing for 314 yards and two touchdowns. He tied the single-season rookie passing touchdown record (27) with two games still to play. He led a game-winning drive — his second in five days — in overtime to earn his first victory against an above-.500 team. He capped it with a sneak for a touchdown. He set it up with a remarkable 53-yard bomb to Jalen Guyton as pressure bore down.

“I’m really proud to be a Charger,” Herbert said.

Herbert won this game because of his unique and unavoidable talent. He won this game by making plays quarterbacks not named Patrick Mahomes simply cannot make.

But in considering Herbert’s performance, it is impossible to shake the feeling that he won this game in spite of the coaching staff.

And that brings us back to our fundamental question.

Two quarterbacks were drafted ahead of Herbert in April — Joe Burrow and Tua Tagovailoa. And, in the moment, this was not a huge surprise. Herbert had weaknesses. There were doubts about whether he could turn his immense athletic gifts and natural intelligence into NFL success.

As our draft expert Dane Brugler wrote of Herbert in his scouting guide: “Each of his game tapes contained NFL-level throws with examples of ‘wow’ plays, however, he has the tendency to leave you wanting more due to his inconsistent reads and decisions. While he is highly intelligent, that doesn’t always translate to on-field processing speed for him — at quarterback, being book smart is great, but you need quick-minded players and he isn’t always that (you would rather have a Jeopardy champion at quarterback than a 4.0 student). Overall, Herbert is a dynamic dual threat passer with an elite combination of size, athleticism and arm talent, but he must sharpen his decision-making and instincts, especially under duress, to live up to his immense potential as an NFL starter.”

And yet here we are. This is no knock on Dane, who is incredibly good at his job. That is what the tape showed. And that is why Herbert fell to sixth overall.

But Herbert has turned all of these perceived weaknesses into strengths. He is processing at a high level. He is making good reads. He has been one of the league’s best passers when under pressure this season. He has an innate feel in the pocket. He consistently avoids pressure and thrives in off-script situations. He is making quick decisions — both when throwing and escaping — and taking full advantage of his elite field vision.

How did that happen?

Herbert deserves credit, of course. To play this way after a stunted offseason is perhaps the most astonishing part of Herbert’s ascendence. But you cannot discount the coaching staff’s impact, from Lynn to offensive coordinator Shane Steichen to quarterbacks coach Pep Hamilton. If we are going to criticize the staff for its collective shortcomings — and there are many — then we must also acknowledge their successes. And they succeeded in grooming Herbert to this point.

But to what degree is it coaching and to what degree is it Herbert himself?

As difficult as that is to quantify, the Chargers must uncover the answer to make the correct decision on their head-coaching future.

They must also attempt to predict the future. Even if coaching has been instrumental in Herbert’s performance thus far, is that coaching going to turn his tantalizing potential into wins? The Chargers have Herbert on his rookie deal for three more seasons before his cap hit skyrockets. This is their championship window. They cannot afford anything less than the very best for Herbert. That starts with the head coach.

Is Lynn that guy?

This game is a great place to start with that analysis.

It was clear from Herbert’s first completion Thursday — a fastball over the middle to tight end Hunter Henry on third-and-11 — that he was poised for a special performance. The Raiders had no answers for the Chargers’ passing attack, despite the injuries at receiver. This was an advantage the Chargers could have exploited all night long. They should have run away with a blowout victory. And yet Lynn and Steichen — who calls the plays — remained stubbornly committed to an inefficient running game.

They ran the ball on all five of their first-down plays on the opening drive of the game. They gained three yards on those plays, which forced Herbert to convert two third-and-longs to keep the possession alive. And his brilliance eventually got them in the end zone on another laser to Henry.

On the next possession, the Chargers ran a wide receiver bubble screen and a swing pass to Austin Ekeler on their two first downs. They eventually punted after a Guyton drop. Herbert did not attempt a pass that traveled beyond the line of scrimmage on a first down until 8:09 remained in the second quarter. That was a completion to Guyton for 12 yards. Herbert moved the Chargers inside the Raiders’ 10-yard line on that drive with a scramble-drill completion to Guyton on a third-and-5. Steichen then called two straight runs — one on first-and-goal from the 9-yard line and one on second-and-goal from the 8-yard line. Allen could not get separation on an out route on third down, and the Chargers were forced to settle for a field goal.

Why not put the ball in Herbert’s hands before third down?

The Chargers’ final drive of the first half featured more of the same. With 1:00 on the clock, Steichen called a screen on first down instead of dropping Herbert back. Ekeler was tackled for a loss. Again, Herbert overcame the puzzling play-calling. First, he hit fellow rookie K.J. Hill on a corner route on third-and-12 for a 25-yard gain. On the next play, he delivered a dime to Tyron Johnson for a 26-yard touchdown to take a 17-10 lead into halftime.

The longer this game dragged on, the more it felt like the Chargers were asking Herbert to pull out a win with one arm tied behind his back.

After a pass interference penalty on the opening play of the second half, the Chargers came out in a wildcat formation on first down with former practice squad running back Kalen Ballage fielding the snap. Ekeler took a handoff and was dropped for no gain. Herbert then read the blitz like a book on second down and found Hill on a hot-read slant for nine yards. On third-and-1, the Chargers predictably handed off to Ballage. The Raiders were ready. He lost four yards. Lynn then punted from the Raiders’ 42-yard line on fourth-and-5 — a very conservative decision considering how Herbert was dissecting the Las Vegas secondary.

Herbert engineered a touchdown drive on the next possession, capped by a 1-yard Ballage touchdown. The Chargers dropped Herbert back on 10 of their 14 snaps, including penalties, and benefitted from one of cornerback Trayvon Mullen’s three pass interference penalties in the game. Mullen could not keep up with Guyton or Johnson. That score put the Chargers ahead 24-17.

The Raiders then tied the game with a drive that took nearly 11 minutes off the clock and extended well into the fourth quarter. The Chargers ran eight plays over their next two possessions and only dropped back Herbert twice — though they did have some success on the ground on the first of those two drives. Michael Badgley missed field goals to end both series. One of them came on a fourth-and-2.

Herbert, the best player on the field Thursday night, attempted just one pass in the fourth quarter.

I ask again: Is that type of coaching and game management going to get the best out of Justin Herbert?

“I was fine with how the game was called,” Lynn said after the game. “You can’t be one dimensional in the National Football League. I don’t care how well you’re throwing the ball. You’re going to have to mix it. Defenses will catch up with you and shut you down. Turnovers and sacks and everything else happens. I thought we did a good job of mixing the run and the pass. I was fine with that.”

But when you have such a clear advantage, why not exploit it? Why not keep going to what works until the opposition proves they can stop it?

Is balance for the sake of balance and balance alone really worth anything?

“Sometimes you have that advantage passing the ball because you are able to run, and you open up things and you get guys in certain coverages,” Lynn said. “You run a play to set up another play. But you have to run the football. Like I said, nobody in this league is one dimensional.”

I have now been covering Lynn for two seasons, and that quote is the best, most concise and most revealing explanation of his football philosophy.

“You have to run the ball.”

Even when your quarterback is as hot as a solar flare and the opposing defense is holding onto receivers for dear life.

Even when your rushing attack is objectively bad.

The Chargers entered this game ranked 27th in rushing DVOA. They entered this game averaging the fifth-fewest yards per carry of any team in football. They averaged two yards per carry on 20 rushes through the first three quarters Thursday night.

And Herbert attempted one pass in the fourth quarter.

I ask again: Is this the coaching that will turn Herbert and the Chargers into Super Bowl champions?

The grass is always greener. The Chargers could replace Lynn with an offensive guru — perhaps the Bills’ Brian Daboll or the Titans’ Arthur Smith — and end up in a worse place. Quarterback development is fickle and exceedingly difficult. Nothing is guaranteed.

If they stick with the status quo, though, and find themselves outside the playoffs in 2021, that would have significant ramifications. Lynn would have to be let go in that scenario, and a new head coach in 2022 would only have two seasons of Herbert on a rookie deal instead of three. That is a much smaller window. Once Herbert signs his extension — or gets to his fifth-year option — the roster and salary cap calculus changes entirely.

It might seem like I am going down a rabbit hole, but these are the factors the Chargers must consider.

If they make the wrong decision, they will have no one to blame but themselves.