Welcome Josh Palmer, WR, Tennessee (Pick #77)

[Guest]

I don't know if it is that simple, Chain. Lynn came from the Parcells mind game school of coaching. He may have been trying to send the team a message or send veterans a message. Or maybe he was taught that you don't lose your job to injury or you don't start rookies unless that is all you got. Or maybe his ego would not allow him to admit he made a mistake or he did not want to break his word to Tyrod. Lynn seemed pretty principled, even to a fault.. But I doubt he did not immediately see that Herbert is just on an entire different level than Tyrod. In fact, if you go back and watch some of that training camp, I am pretty sure there is audio and video of him mic'd up watching Herbert and oohing and ahhing.

TG

I agree with you that something led to Lynn ignoring reality to favor Taylor. Lynn was a huge fan of Taylor's for years and saw everything through that prism and with that bias. Lynn actually disparaged another another team (the Browns), which NFL coaches rarely do, to prop up Taylor. And he minimized Herbert's great debut by stating that he is a backup for a reason, which coaches also rarely do with a young rookie because coaches want to build up the confidence of young players. All of it showed a very strong bias in favor of Taylor.

I raised Taylor and Herbert because if mistakes of this magnitude can happen with an NFL head coach (even though it was Lynn, sigh), then, of course, a lesser mistake can be made. And Staley already made one mistake by playing Tillery as he did last year.

Based upon his and Telesco's comments (both last year and this year) versus play on the field and how (when) Palmer was drafted, I think the evidence is pretty strong that Staley and Telesco have a clear bias in favor of Palmer, which works to the detriment of other WRs not named Allen and Williams (who were good players before Staley arrived).

If you actually look at the numbers, it is pretty clear that Guyton was better than Palmer last year and it is totally obvious that Guyton's deep speed complements Allen and Williams far better than Palmer's game does.

However, many people on this forum are simply offering up false assertion after false assertion about Guyton that I have repeatedly discredited by showing what the actual statistical reality is. The nonsense posted about Guyton not getting separation and not being effective when playing is particularly telling when the stats show that he was our best WR at gaining separation and he produced the highest passer efficiency rating when targeted of all of our WRs. And that passer efficiency stat completely destroys the nonsensical assertion made about Guyton being "nothing more than a one trick pony" even though Lombardi clearly underutilized the "one trick".

[Guest]

Chain's hatred of Palmer is soley related to his 4.52 40.
Chain's love of Guyton is soley related to his 4.35 40.

Everything else derives from that. Nothing else matters. As those 2 things aren't going to change, discussing this topic with chain is essentially masturbation.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jalen-...a-7c74fd80b038

Your post is false and proves that you have not read what I have written. I have posted repeatedly about the strengths of Guyton's game beyond just speed.

That said, I think there is no doubt that Guyton's deep speed does complement the strengths of Allen and Williams better than Palmer's game does.

The pre-draft projection was obviously a massive fail in terms of its rating of Guyton. Say it with me, Guyton produced the highest passer rating when targeted of any of our WRs in 2021.

[richpjr]

The team was stupid for letting Johnson go. What Johnson did or does with other teams remains 100% irrelevant to how Johnson faired when teamed with Herbert.

No it is not irrelevant. Johnson is on his seventh team since 2019 for a reason. He keeps getting looks simply for his speed but ultimately, as I stated before, speed in a receiver is a wonderful trait but not close to being the most important thing. Ask Jerry Rice. You can spin every cherry picked stat you want but the only thing that matters is the cold hard truth that all these teams keep cutting the guy for a reason, despite the monstrous 20 catch season he had for us.

[Caslon]

Guyton and Palmer are improving. Don’t sleep on these two. They aren’t destined for glory. Not as “money” as Williams and Allen maybe. Herbert has some alright good rapport with these two included in Lombardi’s playbook., but then again..who doesn’t? Heh, Jared Cook maybe. I read talk of him maybe going back to his previous team. This is the season to clear house of a few big names. In other news, Gronk…you stay retired, got that?

[powderblueboy]

Guyton and Palmer are improving. Don’t sleep on these two. They aren’t destined for glory. Not as “money” as Williams and Allen maybe. Herbert has some alright good rapport with these two included in Lombardi’s playbook., but then again..who doesn’t? Heh, Jared Cook maybe. I read talk of him maybe going back to his previous team. This is the season to clear house of a few big names. In other news, Gronk…you stay retired, got that?

If Palmer never turns into a solid NFL 2nd receiver, the pick was a poor choice by Telesco,
considering their needs at the time on the offensive line and at corner, and who was available.

[powderblueboy]

No, the number of absolutely false, increasingly weak and desperate arguments made by others attempting to save face in response to my absolute shredding every single position taken by them has increased, causing the number of paragraphs needed to dispatch each of the increasingly pathetic arguments to increase as well.

And speaking of dispatching pathetic arguments, even if I agreed with your assertion about Guyton being Williams' backup (and I do not), it would not necessarily follow at all that just because Allen had an advantage over Williams that that means that Palmer has an advantage over Guyton. That is simply illogical. In Lombardi's offense in New Orleans, the X receiver was by far the most important receiver. That position is currently played by Williams, not Allen.

As it turns out, your position assignment is largely incorrect also as per Sharp Football Analysis, we played 63.6% of our offensive snaps with 11 personnel (1 RB, 1 TE, 3 WRs).

So your post is basically wrong about almost everything.

The argument is that K.A. is the possession receiver and MWub is primarily the big play receiver: hence, Guyton more closely resembles MWub in function on the team.

I would like for Palmer to be effective being both types: he was primarily a deep receiver at Tennessee.

[equivocation]

The argument is that K.A. is the possession receiver and MWub is primarily the big play receiver: hence, Guyton more closely resembles MWub in function on the team.

I would like for Palmer to be effective being both types: he was primarily a deep receiver at Tennessee.

Palmer's route distribution last year is similar to Williams' and not at all similar to Allen's. This may be because Williams was dealing with an injury, though. Or that Palmer played a lot when we were in passing situations at the end of the season.

Guyton should work on being a slot WR. He lacks the physicality to be a boundary WR. He's improved since college, but not enough.

[Heatmiser]

I think you are correct, but I did see Palmer run some Allen routes/plays when Allen was out sick. In fact, Palmer scored on one of them!

TG

[blueman]

I think you are correct, but I did see Palmer run some Allen routes/plays when Allen was out sick. In fact, Palmer scored on one of them!

TG

Seriously, dude is one injury away from BREAKOUT season.

[Guest]

No it is not irrelevant. Johnson is on his seventh team since 2019 for a reason. He keeps getting looks simply for his speed but ultimately, as I stated before, speed in a receiver is a wonderful trait but not close to being the most important thing. Ask Jerry Rice. You can spin every cherry picked stat you want but the only thing that matters is the cold hard truth that all these teams keep cutting the guy for a reason, despite the monstrous 20 catch season he had for us.

How did he do with Herbert? That is all that matters. We do not need to guess at what he would do with Herbert. We already know.

He was awesome when paired with Herbert. 20 catches on 26 targets for 398 yards, 19.9 yards per reception, 3 TDs, 76.9% catch percentage (best among all WRs on the team by 8.9%), 15.3 yards per target (best on the team, nobody else was in double figures among all receivers at any position), NFL leading passer rating produced when targeted (156.7) among qualifying players.

That is elite, best on the team quality in a limited opportunity. There is no cherry picking. His quality of production was pretty much great across the board in the role he brought in to play as a reserve player. Palmer's quality of production will never be as good as Johnson's was in 2020.

[Guest]

The argument is that K.A. is the possession receiver and MWub is primarily the big play receiver: hence, Guyton more closely resembles MWub in function on the team.

I would like for Palmer to be effective being both types: he was primarily a deep receiver at Tennessee.

The argument was badly flawed because it failed to account for the vast majority of snaps played with 11 personnel.

What I saw from Palmer in college is the same as what I have seen from him for us. He struggles to gain separation (which is totally supported by his poor average separation number). He had some deep game success in college because despite his QBs not being all that good, they threw a number of picture perfect longer passes to a fairly well covered Palmer.

Palmer lacks Guyton's speed and Williams' contested catch ability. I do not see him as being a plus deep passing game option. Honestly, I would settle for him improving to the level of competent in the deep passing game (which is something better than the team throwing deep to him twice and having two INTs to show for it when neither play should have bene an INT).

[Guest]

Seriously, dude is one injury away from BREAKOUT season.

No way, never, not close ever.

Your statement is similar to the nonsense people were talking last year when several posters suggested that Palmer was going replace Williams after Williams left in free agency.

Palmer has the ability of a solid reserve WR, nothing more. He has no elite traits. There is a reason why he was rated as a round 4/5 player by most pundits entering the NFL draft.

He seems like a hard worker and a good guy, but his speed is average and his moves are below average for an NFL WR. There are a bunch of reserve WRs that are similar to him playing for other teams. They are not going to have a breakout season either.