Chargers @ Chiefs Wk3 Game Day Thread / Post Game Discussion

[Bolt Dude]

They've called go routes for Guyton and he's been doubled.

We haven't had a 40+ TD pass in almost a year because teams are hanging back. Or Guyton drops it.

I’d call this last game an exception for not throwing long. It wasn’t a smart option. Too dad-gum windy.

[ghost]

Good watch. Excellent.

This was posted two weeks ago. Really excellent primer on Coach Staley's tite front and two-high shell concepts.

[PR#1]

Watched the game last night on NFLN.

Very proud of this team !!

[Guest]

That is entirely non-responsive, despite the new adjectives and descriptions.

There have been many missed tackles and bad angles this year. I'm not saying fixing those alone will make a great run defense, but it will make an average run defense. It's "plain as day". The issues have been both LoS and in the second level. Fixing one of those is better than fixing none.

The Rams third best run defense last year had 2 DTs under 300#s (Joseph-Day 295#, Donald 285#) Brockers 305#, Ebukam 245#, Floyd 240#, Kiser 244#, Hollins 248#, Young 234#, Fuller 203#, Hill 180#, Johnson 208#, Ramsey 208#, Williams 187#. They were literally smaller in total weight than the Chargers this year.

Your simplistic world view of run defense doesn't allow for that to happen. There must be some aspect to run defense beside "bigger".

My posts have been responsive, contrary to your contention. Specifically, the following points. most of which have been stated previously, militate against your position:

1. Staley stated that he thought the tackling was good. In other words, while pursuit angles, wrapping up, etc. (the issues you identified) can always be better, it is not the issue that you have made it out to be per Staley.

2. The focus of my discussion has been about front 7 players because that is what would stand to make a real difference in the run defense. Our team struggles in run defense because 1) our DL and LB players are mostly not stout run defenders and 2) our scheme leaves us with many light boxes. You want to focus on what is 5% of the problem. I am discussing what is 95% of the issue, an issue that has largely been created by design in terms of both the players and schemes chosen. There is a definite and very deliberate trade off that we are making that has generally worked so far in terms of the defense as a whole.

3. You keep citing the Rams, which is just a terrible example. When we have Aaron Donald in his prime, then that example might be more meaningful. The responsive way I addressed that previously was to simply state that Donald cures a lot of ills.

4. I also stated that there are some exceptions to the general rule that bigger, stronger, more stout players were better run defenders, but the general rule is the rule for a reason. You seem to want to reduce bigger, stronger, and more stout to just bigger and only bigger by weight. I never said that. Heck, only a few pounds separate Perryman and White and Tranquill. But Perryman has that natural, traditional ILB build. Tranquill and White are naturally smaller, quicker blown up former DB players that do not hold up to the run as well as a player like Perryman does. Along those lines, you did list a Perryman type player among the Rams in Micah Kiser, a noted run thumper, which kind of shows what I am talking about. (Interestingly, the Rams did not seem ti be overly concerned about keeping him either as we did not see fit to keep Perryman.) Similarly, while Brockers and Tillery are also only a few pounds different in weight, Tillery is soft against the run and Brockers is not. Tillery's height creates leverage issues and he has a more naturally slender. more narrow build than Brockers does.

On the whole, the smaller, quicker defenders that we use for the purpose of stopping the passing game are less likely to stand up as effectively against the run as noted run defending type players are. The difference becomes more pronounced when the run defending disadvantage is stressed by going light in the box.

Again, I believe that this is 100% by design. Perryman would have been easy to re-sign if the team had any interest in doing so as he only signed a two year, $6M deal with Carolina. That he was easily our best run defending LB did not seem to matter at all to TT and BS, further evidencing the priorities and design of the Staley defense. With a dearth of run defending hammers among the front 7, expect the run defense to continue to struggle to at least some degree and expect Staley to continue to not be overly concerned about it as we continue to limit the passing game and points allowed on defense.

[Guest]

Lol. Herb scrambled and tossed that mf'er about 70 yards! I think you're quibbling if you expected "a better pass"! That thing was a bomb-on-a-rope, thrown under duress.

I was there. I saw the play as I was sitting at about the 35 on that side of the field. I am not in any way suggesting that it was an easy throw. I am suggesting that had it been a better throw, it would have been an easy TD as Guyton had huge separation on the deep down the field, which is exactly why Guyton needs to be the clear #3 WR.

[Guest]

I can't recall ever seeing T.Billy in a jump ball situation. For obvious reasons, they had him doing outrun-the-coverage routes, not trying to outjump DBs that he doesn't have a size advantage over. .

The Hail Mary against BUF comes to mind. He caught several balls in traffic for us last year.

[Guest]

It was 55 yards, I just saw the reply, the impressive thing is that he was running towards his left side, turns and throws the pass. Guyton should've caught it. He had the advantage. I miss those rainbow passes from last year. Can we try them more often?

Full game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLNprHp44l4

Around Minute 17:05

Sorenson got there right when the ball did because the ball was underthrown compared to where a better throw would been. It was catchable, but it was a much tougher chance than many on this forum are making it out to be. If Herbert could have reached the back of the end zone on that pass (very difficult, no doubt, as it would have required a 60+ yard pass while moving to his left and against the prevailing wind), that play would have been an easy TD.

[Guest]

What’s the context of those running plays on those first downs? For example, how many yards did each gain, and how did it affect the following play? Also when were the early run plays called and the circumstances of those run plays?

There were 13 runs for 30 yards, less than 2.5 yards per carry and even that is misleading as 11 of those yards came on one Ekeler run. The general effect was to put us behind the sticks as we were all of last season, which is exactly why I did not like that play calling approach.

[Guest]

Not one go route has been thrown to Guyton thus far. Not that we wont at some point but this offense isnt the same as last years. And now Guyton runs more regular routes that he can drop.

Im not worried about Palmer. This is his rookie year and he will play at times and if someone gets hurt, he gets his chance to step up. If he sits most the season it means MW and Keenan are healthy and he gets to learn.

The worry is that the team will think Palmer is a high caliber WR that can replace Williams next year. In this offense, Williams is every bit as valuable as Allen is. I think we are seeing that Williams is better than most thought he was because the prior scheme focused so heavily on Allen.

I have seen zero evidence that Palmer is anything other than a reserve WR. Any player can develop and I am not suggesting that Palmer is a Pipkins bad draft pick as I think he has at least some potential, but there is a gigantic difference between Williams and Palmer and all those folks that thought that Palmer could replace Williams need to be pumping the brakes pretty hard right about now.

I would much rather have Guyton's deep speed and jet sweep potential on the field than Palmer.

[Ghost of Quacksaw]

Two options with Mike Williams:

(1) Pay up, and invest a not-insignificant chunk of cap space to keep him with the Bolts for the next 4-5 seasons.

(2) Say goodbye to Mike, and graciously accept the Compensatory 3rd round pick the club will get when Mike signs elsewhere.

That's pretty much it.

Josh Palmer is an entirely separate discussion, but I'll say *this*: He's had more snaps in three games as a rookie than K.J. Hill or Joe Reed did through their entire rookie seasons. He deserves time to acclimate and for the coaches to find the role he's uniquely suited to.

[FoutsFan]

I was there. I saw the play as I was sitting at about the 35 on that side of the field. I am not in any way suggesting that it was an easy throw. I am suggesting that had it been a better throw, it would have been an easy TD as Guyton had huge separation on the deep down the field, which is exactly why Guyton needs to be the clear #3 WR.

You missed the point of the receiver has to catch the ball. Getting open is just the first part. That pass still hit Guyton right between both hands and he dropped it. Allen or Williams would have caught the ball no doubt.

[Xenos]

There were 13 runs for 30 yards, less than 2.5 yards per carry and even that is misleading as 11 of those yards came on one Ekeler run. The general effect was to put us behind the sticks as we were all of last season, which is exactly why I did not like that play calling approach.

I think you’re overthinking things like you usually are. You don’t always need to pass on first down. And given we’ve seen, we’re still one of the best at passing on first downs. It’s okay to mix it up sometimes.