How close are you to your breaking point over Chargers possibly leaving San Diego?

[sandiego17]

Perhaps the San Diego library was a bad investment - you'd know more than me (well, maybe not - you don't live in San Diego anymore either). But I'm going to say, over the course of human history, libraries have been excellent uses of public funds. Public funds for sports stadiums? Not such good investments - not for the average taxpayer anyway.

Debatable. Next time 100K citizens shows up at the Central Library in the middle of the night to welcome home the head librarian, I might agree with you.

Personally, I've been to a stadium many more times than a public library (games, concerts, etc.) I've also visited other cities to attend their stadiums, but never to attend their public library. If we include university libraries, than libraries win the attendance count.

What public library are we talking about that have been funded by the public throughout history, do you get to count Alexandria? Then I get the Colosseum, its still earning tourist money. Hell of an investment!

[Lightningwill_420]

Debatable. Next time 100K citizens shows up at the Central Library in the middle of the night to welcome home the head librarian, I might agree with you.

Personally, I've been to a stadium many more times than a public library (games, concerts, etc.) I've also visited other cities to attend their stadiums, but never to attend their public library. If we include university libraries, than libraries win the attendance count.

What public library are we talking about that have been funded by the public throughout history, do you get to count Alexandria? Then I get the Colosseum, its still earning tourist money. Hell of an investment!

Colosseum - most famous for battles to the death and the torturous execution of slaves, Christians, and Jews.
Library of Alexandria - most famous for education and for being destroyed by idiots and warlords

The following I copied and pasted from: http://pld.dpi.wi.gov/sites/default/...raryimpact.pdf.


Review of Prior Studies
A number of prior economic impact studies involving public libraries were reviewed.
Below are summaries of the economic impact portion of several of those studies:
• Florida (2004)
This study measured the economic impact of Florida's public libraries. The
project placed Florida libraries into an evaluative framework that
measured their economic impact in a manner comparable to other
economic impact studies of other types of organizations. It used standard
models of economic values, most notably the model developed by
Regional Economic Models, Inc., and the Contingent Valuation Method.
The study reported a return on investment of $6.54 for each dollar of
taxpayer support. It also reported that public libraries enhanced the
quality of life in communities and helped to build a stronger state
economy
• Indiana (2007)
The Indiana study measured the economic impact of public and academic
libraries on the Indiana economy. The study measured the direct economic
impact of library spending and the indirect impact of that spending. The study
presented a cost to benefit ratio of $2.38 that measured the direct economic
benefit compared to each dollar of library cost.
• Ohio (2006)
This study covered libraries in the southwestern part of Ohio. It reported a
direct economic impact of nearly four times the amount invested in their
operations. The value the libraries' cumulative expenditure of about $74 million
returned a quantifiable direct economic benefit of $238.6 million, or $3.81 for
each dollar expended in 2005. The study also recognizes that these libraries add
significant value to their users and communities that cannot be assigned a dollar
value including improved economic prospects and an enhanced quality of life.

The Economic Contribution of Wisconsin Public Libraries______________________________
NorthStar Economics, Inc. 15
• Pennsylvania (2006)
The Pennsylvania study measured the value of public libraries on a contingent
valuation basis (what if there were no public libraries). The study estimates
how much it would cost consumers to get needed information, how much the
economy would lose if the salaries of public library staff didn’t exist, and how
much would be lost in a halo effect by businesses who would not get the
spending dollars of library patrons who would use these businesses as they
went to or from a public library. Altogether, the Pennsylvania study estimates
that the taxpayer return on investment would be $5.55 for every tax dollar
spent.
• South Carolina (2005)
The South Carolina study was completed in 2005 and reported on the
perceived value of libraries to library users and the economic impact of public
libraries in the State of South Carolina. The study measured the direct and
indirect economic impact of library expenditures, the value of circulation of
library materials, and the value of reference services. The study calculated a
total direct and indirect return on investment of $4.48 for each $1 expended on
public libraries.
• Vermont (2007)
The Vermont Department of Public Libraries published a study on the
economic impact of public libraries in the State of Vermont. The study
followed the methodology used in the South Carolina study. The Vermont
study reported both a direct and indirect return on investment. The direct
economic ROI which included the value of library services was $5.05 per
dollar of tax support. The indirect ROI, the value of the multiplier effect of
direct spending, was $1.91 in benefits for each dollar of tax support. The
overall return on investment for each tax dollar was $6.96.

[sandiego17]

1. What bias would a professor have against a stadium?

Really? I'm might be jaded, but I've never, ever met an unbiased professor. They pretty much cloud everything with their world view. Shit, when I was in grad school, Al Gore was a 'visiting' professor at the same university (different department, thank God.) I suppose he had some free time during hangingchadgate. Hell, he destroyed Bush in our mock election, I mean, 95% to 5% kind of numbers, like Saddam vs. Tarik Aziz. That's bias/groupthink whatever you want to call it on steroids, IMO.

[Faded blues]

Does running naked head first into your garage door count?

Can I send my therapist bill to the Chargers?

[Lightningwill_420]

Really? I'm might be jaded, but I've never, ever met an unbiased professor. They pretty much cloud everything with their world view, and as professors. Shit, when I was in grad school, Al Gore was a 'visiting' professor at the same university (different department, thank God.) I suppose he had some free time during hangingchadgate. Hell, he destroyed Bush in our mock election, I mean, 95% to 5% kind of numbers, like Saddam vs. Tarik Aziz. That's bias/groupthink whatever you want to call it on steroids, IMO.

You didn't read my message. But, it's fine. Ef the Raiders.

[Mister Hoarse]

Does running naked head first into your garage door count?

Can I send my therapist bill to the Chargers?

Winner!

[Lightningwill_420]

Competing use of public funds.

But, if that's true, the professor would have to know that a stadium takes money out of public funds and does not contribute to them.

[sandiego17]

Colosseum - most famous for battles to the death and the torturous execution of slaves, Christians, and Jews.
Library of Alexandria - most famous for education and for being destroyed by idiots and warlords

The following I copied and pasted from: http://pld.dpi.wi.gov/sites/default/...raryimpact.pdf.


Review of Prior Studies
A number of prior economic impact studies involving public libraries were reviewed.
Below are summaries of the economic impact portion of several of those studies:
• Florida (2004)The study reported a return on investment of $6.54 for each dollar of
taxpayer support. It also reported that public libraries enhanced the
quality of life in communities and helped to build a stronger state
economy...
• Indiana (2007)The study
presented a cost to benefit ratio of $2.38 that measured the direct economic
benefit compared to each dollar of library cost.
• Ohio (2006)
The value the libraries' cumulative expenditure of about $74 million
returned a quantifiable direct economic benefit of $238.6 million, or $3.81 for
each dollar expended in 2005.
• Pennsylvania (2006)
The Pennsylvania study measured the value of public libraries on a contingent
valuation basis (what if there were no public libraries). The study estimates
how much it would cost consumers to get needed information, how much the
economy would lose if the salaries of public library staff didn’t exist, and how
much would be lost in a halo effect by businesses who would not get the
spending dollars of library patrons who would use these businesses as they
went to or from a public library. Altogether, the Pennsylvania study estimates
that the taxpayer return on investment would be $5.55 for every tax dollar
spent.
• South Carolina (2005)
The indirect ROI, the value of the multiplier effect of
direct spending, was $1.91 in benefits for each dollar of tax support. The
overall return on investment for each tax dollar was $6.96.

Jeez. So if we just build more libraries, we could solve all our issues, its a hell of an investment. The Pennsylvania one I didn't crop shows the input they used. I'm a tad skeptical of any results based on how much consumers would have to spend if we didn't have a library to come up with a return. So if I have to fly to NY to watch the Chargers instead of watching them in SD, does my entire trip count as 'return' for an investment in a hypothetical stadium? If my kid checks out 6 books because they're free, it doesn't necessarily mean I would buy 6 books if there wasn't a library...

[Lightningwill_420]

Does running naked head first into your garage door count?

Can I send my therapist bill to the Chargers?

Rockethead Hendrickson?

[Lightningwill_420]

Jeez. So if we just build more libraries, we could solve all our issues, its a hell of an investment. The Pennsylvania one I didn't crop shows the input they used, which I'm a tad skeptical of any results based on how much consumers would have to spend to come up with a return. So if I have to fly to NY to watch the Chargers instead of watching them in SD, does my entire trip count as 'return' for an investment in a hypothetical stadium?

Building more libraries probably wouldn't solve all our issues, but neither would building more stadiums (which was my point before I went way off topic).

Sorry for taking this way off topic. I knew talking politics on a sports board would cause me to ruin stuff.

I don't buy that libraries provide a direct monetary benefit either. I just think, throughout human history, they've been a good investment. People are smarter because of them, and I like living in a society in which people are smarter.

My post that you responded to was to answer a question that I already caused by taking my off-topic message off topic from the off topic message I was originally off topic with.

So, I'm dipping out of this conversation again.

If people want to go on believing stadiums are money makers for governments despite all evidence against it or that economists are disguising themselves as evil biased professors bent on human destruction, they can go on believing it. In the end, the Chargers staying in San Diego would be a good thing for me.

Go San Diego Chargers.

[sandiego17]

You didn't read my message. But, it's fine. Ef the Raiders.

I read it. I even looked up Johnny Z (a professor) and (Andrew Zimbalist) a professor. I'm willing to bet the peers are generally professors, although I could be wrong, but still willing to bet. Always F the Raiders.

[sandiego17]

Sorry for taking this way off message.

I don't buy that libraries provide a direct monetary benefit either.

If people want to go on believing stadiums are money makers for governments, they can go on believing it. In the end, the Chargers staying in San Diego would be a good thing for me.

Sorry as well. Personally, I don't think either provide direct monetary benefits but I do think both provide benefits. Chargers staying in SD is a good thing for SD.