Patriots at Chargers Pregame Discussion (wk 8)

[Guest]

This is what people do when they lose the argument.

I don't think there are bad coaches in the NFL. There are good coaches and great coaches. But no bad coaches.
His resumes shows he has a winning record as HC in the NFL and that's not easy to do. In case you missed it Herbert said winning the final 4 of last season was good momentum for him going into this season.

This is Staley team now and he is also a good HC.
I think he is a better communicator and a better defensive mind than previous coach and was my favorite replacement for him when they chose to move on.

No, I am just showing your skewed perspective relative to head coaches.

We do not need your say so to realize that Lynn was terrible and underachieved in 3 of 4 seasons.

And you are right, this is Staley's team now, so we get intelligent tactical decisions instead of ones that cost us game after game as was the case with Lynn.

I saw the offensive approach by the Lions recently. Lynn is in the Dark Ages compared to Staley--bottom 10 offense that is bottom 5 in scoring. The same stupid tactics over and over again. It really made me appreciate Staley.

[Xenos]

Says the guy who loves reading 6 paragraph reply posts. Life is too short. Since you find my post non-sencical, why did you just satarize my post and not join in with a
4 paragraph reply of your own? Easy to stupid judge, isn’t it?

Yes it is quite easy to judge stupid posts.

[Xenos]

agree...... the past draft was loaded with good RBs...... yet Chargers did not grab any of the good ones...even though we had major need.... 49ers who were loaded at RB, drafted 2 really talented backs..... NE also loaded at RB but still drafted Stevenson (whom i wanted Chargers to draft)..... 49ers dont even use sermon...maybe we could trade for him to rotate with Ekler.....

RBs was the bottom of our needs. Improving the trenches was more important.

[jamrock]

Phil Jackson does not win any titles coaching if he was coaching the clippers or many other teams that didn't have Jordan or Kobe. Popovich is struggling to win now that Duncan and Parker are all gone. Phil did nothing special when he was in New York trying to build them up. Only when he had Jordan and Kobe did things happen for him. Kerr struggled with Warriors as soon as he lost his stars to injury.

It's not a check or egg argument to me. I've coached, even though it wasn't a very high level. We were great when my stars were healthy, even had a ref say he has been doing this a long time and he was very impressed with how well coached he thought my team was. But when my stars were missing my team struggled..we.went from dominate to scratching and clawing for wins. And then when my mvp returned.to the line up, my team went back to crushing opponents. I do feel like I coached them well and got the best out of them, but man I also know how much having talent matters. It matters more than coaching. Talent can over come bad coaching better than coaching can overcome bad talent.

Staley gets it. He said the words, "we all know what our record is without Derwin James, this whole movie is different without him".

We didn't add Hopkins and Roberts just because coaches suck. If coaches are so great then coach up Viz and Hill. Why replace them? .... because talent matters more.

Obviously you have to have talented players. I don’t think anyone would argue that point. But the comparison between a Kerr or Jackson without any of the stars to their record with all their stars is a silly exercise. You have to have both clearly. But having talent without great coaching won’t get you there just as the converse is true. Kerr and Jackson both won titles with teams when their previous coaches could not. Same talent, different coach.

[Critty]

For Pete's sake. Tampa Bay was 7-9 with a +9 point differential with a bad 30 INT QB. They got White back and added Gronk, Brown, and Fournette, plus added Wirfs and Winfield by the draft. They likely would have been a playoff team with even Winston back at QB. They are Super Bowl winners with a better QB, any better QB. Only 2 of their wins in last year's regular season were by less than 7 points and another QB might have pulled out several of TB's losses last year when Mr. 5th down sucked. Brady had multiple INTs in both of their 3 point losses (Rams and Chiefs). And, of course, Brady lost track of the down while just 20-25 yards from game winning FG range against the Bears in a 1 point loss.

And the playoffs have already been discussed at length here. Because of what the Bucs did on defense, there was a large margin for error in the playoffs, really large, as in throwing 3 INTs and still winning large.

Again, you can always claim that because it did not happen, we will never know. Sure, be we can see what would have been very likely. This was a team that won most of its games comfortably in the regular season and had three close losses when Brady made awful mistakes that even an average QB likely would not have made. The Bucs were loaded and would have won with a decent QB. Brady did nothing special last year.

So you're saying the Bucs coming off that point and turnover differential we're loaded and would have won the Superbowl with any decent QB.
Sounds like you had this all locked in that it's was the Bucs once they upgraded the QB. And then they did. So, Did you bet them to win the Superbowl?

[Berserker76]

RBs was the bottom of our needs. Improving the trenches was more important.

The trenches are the key, at least we are moving in the right direction.

[TTThunder]

I am looking forward to this game...

1. Up and coming Staley vs proven BB...
2. How Herbert comes back from his worst game this year...
3. How Herbert responds to playing against the team he lost badly last year...

Go Bolts!!!

[Fouts2herbert]

One thing Bill wouldn’t do is come right out and call his young 2nd year QB a “Super Star.” An upcoming one, granted. I’m starting to see chinks in Staley’s armor making such statements. Too presumptuous a statement as a young HC wunderkind, IMO.

presumptuous? I don’t know about that, I don’t interpret staley’s behavior as arrogant or inappropriate. The kid had a close call with cancer and has been thru some serious stuff. From his POV, I think he feels like he’s already playing with house money and the rest of his life is just a bonus. To me it seems like he’s going for broke with nothing to lose and everything to gain. He’s not taking the time he has left for granted, everything he does has a sense of urgency to it. From his life experience he understands all too well how quickly everything can go south. Staley has been humbled by adversity and it shows in the respect he extends to everyone, including the media.

I’m glad he’s not like bill belichick

[dmac_bolt]

Phil Jackson does not win any titles coaching if he was coaching the clippers or many other teams that didn't have Jordan or Kobe. Popovich is struggling to win now that Duncan and Parker are all gone. Phil did nothing special when he was in New York trying to build them up. Only when he had Jordan and Kobe did things happen for him. Kerr struggled with Warriors as soon as he lost his stars to injury.

It's not a check or egg argument to me. I've coached, even though it wasn't a very high level. We were great when my stars were healthy, even had a ref say he has been doing this a long time and he was very impressed with how well coached he thought my team was. But when my stars were missing my team struggled..we.went from dominate to scratching and clawing for wins. And then when my mvp returned.to the line up, my team went back to crushing opponents. I do feel like I coached them well and got the best out of them, but man I also know how much having talent matters. It matters more than coaching. Talent can over come bad coaching better than coaching can overcome bad talent.

Staley gets it. He said the words, "we all know what our record is without Derwin James, this whole movie is different without him".

We didn't add Hopkins and Roberts just because coaches suck. If coaches are so great then coach up Viz and Hill. Why replace them? .... because talent matters more.

Phil perfected the fabled innovative triangle offense thingy. Or, as cynics might call it - cough - give Michael the ball.

This coach vs player debate is as boring today as it was yesterday. Why the obsessive need to pick one? They both have roles on a team, and teams win or lose as teams.

[Critty]

Phil perfected the fabled innovative triangle offense thingy. Or, as cynics might call it - cough - give Michael the ball.

This coach vs player debate is as boring today as it was yesterday. Why the obsessive need to pick one? They both have roles on a team, and teams win or lose as teams.

I agree they both have roles in teams wins.
The picking one for me is just to say which is more important to winning. Do you think one has more impact on success? I think players do have bigger impact. I'm on the side of it's starts with the players, the talent actually playing the game.
A lot of coaches actually admit this. Like when Steph Curry breaks records shooting threes. Kerr would be asked about it and joke, "well it's because I'm a great coach" knowing he has nothing to do with with how great he is at the 3 ball.

And I'm just not a fan of Belichick being called this genius all time great coach. My opinion based on his resume is that he has done nothing without Brady or cheating. When he gets called the greatest coach or a genius for those 20 season with Brady. I just don't see it. I see a cakewalk division, the goat QB, and cheating. Belichick will need to actually get back to the playoffs regularly without Brady and with no more cheating scandals and then I'll start to give him more credit.

[powderblueboy]

So you're saying the Bucs coming off that point and turnover differential we're loaded and would have won the Superbowl with any decent QB.
Sounds like you had this all locked in that it's was the Bucs once they upgraded the QB. And then they did. So, Did you bet them to win the Superbowl?

Yes, the Bucs were loaded last year and healthy: there were 10 - 15 qbs, with whom one can comfortably say they would have won it all last year.

If you think otherwise, point to a weakness on that roster.

[Berserker76]

BB is good at:
Developing his players.
Teaching his players discipline.
Making adjustments throughout the game.

That said, I don't particularly care for him or his smarmy-assed offensive coordinator. I'm looking forward to this game even more than the Raiders. To me, this game will determine our fate for the rest of the year. Win it and the sky's the limit, lose it and we are just the same old Chargers. Don't get me wrong, I'm still high on the team moving forward in the long run. Just saying this game is one big monkey we need to get off of our back. Underestimating the Patriots is a big mistake. Hope Jones is truly healed for this one. That said, I'm hoping for a crushing victory, not just a squeaker. Haven't had one of those since the Bills at StubHub, and that game had poor Peterson as their QB. Crush them, I say, crush them!