Patriots at Chargers Pregame Discussion (wk 8)

[Caslon]

One thing Bill wouldn’t do is come right out and call his young 2nd year QB a “Super Star.” An upcoming one, granted. I’m starting to see chinks in Staley’s armor making such statements. Too presumptuous a statement as a young HC wunderkind, IMO.

[blueman]

One thing Bill wouldn’t do is come right out and call his young 2nd year QB a “Super Star.” An upcoming one, granted. I’m starting to see chinks in Staley’s armor making such statements. Too presumptuous a statement as a young HC wunderkind, IMO.

Kinda wonder if that shit is messing with Herbert’s head.

[Critty]

I am examining their playoff run. Please, try to use even a little bit of common sense thinking about this.

Would an average QB with TB's loaded roster have been able to beat a 7 win WAS team? Of course. That would be the expectation.

Would an an average QB with Tampa Bay's roster be able to get a win when the defense forces 4 turnovers against the opponent as they did against NO? Of course. That would be the expectation.

Would have average QB have been able to beat Green Bay when Brady himself threw 3 picks in that game and the Bucs still won? Of course. That would be the expectation.

Would an average QB have been able to score more than 9 points against KC's weak defense? Of course. That would be the expectation.

If your only point is that because it never happened, we cannot say that with 100% certainty that it would have happened, yes, you can always say that just like I can say that the it is not a certainty that the 2006 Chargers would have beaten the winless 2008 Lions because they never actually played. But absent taking a disingenuous position, we all know that the 2006 Chargers would have beaten the winless 2008 Lions just like we all know that given what Tampa Bay's defense did in the playoffs, any average QB would have led them to a Super Bowl victory.

Stop. You change the driver and it doesn't mean they run the same race the same way. They are not cogs. You can claim on that playoff run any QB would have got it done because the defense played well. But my comments were not specific to just the part of a season and the playoff run. They were bigger picture of what Brady has already accomplished without Belichick and what Belichick didn't accomplish before or after Brady or without cheating. It's not conjecture, it is on the resumes.

You making a claim that an average QB could have won. We have no idea how that avg QB would have played that day in any of those games. And we have no idea how the defense plays if they don't trust the QB much. The phases of the game can work together and inspire the teammates. Also it was mentioned in the news that Brady would provide insight to the defense of tendencies that they could exploit. These things are too organic to be as mechanical and reliable as you claim. Just because the game played out a certain way that it would play out the same exact way like a scripted movie with different actor at QB. Same script same.lines same movie. That's not how sports work. It's just isn't.
Would an avg QB beat Washington which was a bad team with that Bucs team. It's likely true. But I'm not going to say that avg QB does what Brady does to impact the team all season and all post season.. That would be acting like QBs are cogs that can be replaced like a light bulb to get similar results.

[Critty]

But Anthony Lynn is a good head coach, right? LMAO!!!

:LOL:

This is what people do when they lose the argument.

I don't think there are bad coaches in the NFL. There are good coaches and great coaches. But no bad coaches.
His resumes shows he has a winning record as HC in the NFL and that's not easy to do. In case you missed it Herbert said winning the final 4 of last season was good momentum for him going into this season.

This is Staley team now and he is also a good HC.
I think he is a better communicator and a better defensive mind than previous coach and was my favorite replacement for him when they chose to move on.

[Caslon]

Kinda wonder if that shit is messing with Herbert’s head.

Heh, job security statement .We have the QB, I’m the man to lead us to greatness. Stick with me as a young new wave HC. Ok, but refrain from making statements like that. It’s a bit much. There are other elements that make a winning coach besides being a young tactician. So far so good…Staley. Keep it going for 17 games, with more than a “Super Star” QB. Some teams gather around more than a brilliant tactician and a “Super Star” QB fallen into your lap. This game might come down to HC vs. HC and all that that entails.

[Xenos]

One thing Bill wouldn’t do is come right out and call his young 2nd year QB a “Super Star.” An upcoming one, granted. I’m starting to see chinks in Staley’s armor making such statements. Too presumptuous a statement as a young HC wunderkind, IMO.

[Guest]

Stop. You change the driver and it doesn't mean they run the same race the same way. They are not cogs. You can claim on that playoff run any QB would have got it done because the defense played well. But my comments were not specific to just the part of a season and the playoff run. They were bigger picture of what Brady has already accomplished without Belichick and what Belichick didn't accomplish before or after Brady or without cheating. It's not conjecture, it is on the resumes.

You making a claim that an average QB could have won. We have no idea how that avg QB would have played that day in any of those games. And we have no idea how the defense plays if they don't trust the QB much. The phases of the game can work together and inspire the teammates. Also it was mentioned in the news that Brady would provide insight to the defense of tendencies that they could exploit. These things are too organic to be as mechanical and reliable as you claim. Just because the game played out a certain way that it would play out the same exact way like a scripted movie with different actor at QB. Same script same.lines same movie. That's not how sports work. It's just isn't.
Would an avg QB beat Washington which was a bad team with that Bucs team. It's likely true. But I'm not going to say that avg QB does what Brady does to impact the team all season and all post season.. That would be acting like QBs are cogs that can be replaced like a light bulb to get similar results.

For Pete's sake. Tampa Bay was 7-9 with a +9 point differential with a bad 30 INT QB. They got White back and added Gronk, Brown, and Fournette, plus added Wirfs and Winfield by the draft. They likely would have been a playoff team with even Winston back at QB. They are Super Bowl winners with a better QB, any better QB. Only 2 of their wins in last year's regular season were by less than 7 points and another QB might have pulled out several of TB's losses last year when Mr. 5th down sucked. Brady had multiple INTs in both of their 3 point losses (Rams and Chiefs). And, of course, Brady lost track of the down while just 20-25 yards from game winning FG range against the Bears in a 1 point loss.

And the playoffs have already been discussed at length here. Because of what the Bucs did on defense, there was a large margin for error in the playoffs, really large, as in throwing 3 INTs and still winning large.

Again, you can always claim that because it did not happen, we will never know. Sure, be we can see what would have been very likely. This was a team that won most of its games comfortably in the regular season and had three close losses when Brady made awful mistakes that even an average QB likely would not have made. The Bucs were loaded and would have won with a decent QB. Brady did nothing special last year.

[Critty]

Phil Jackson won more titles than Michael Jordan. By a margin. Jordan didn’t win a single ring without Phil.

Glen Sather continued to win titles after Gretzky left for LA. Gretzky won no more.

Great coaches always have great players. It’s a chicken and egg thing generally. But the guys who are truly great separate themselves by winning at different places or with completely different line ups

Phil Jackson does not win any titles coaching if he was coaching the clippers or many other teams that didn't have Jordan or Kobe. Popovich is struggling to win now that Duncan and Parker are all gone. Phil did nothing special when he was in New York trying to build them up. Only when he had Jordan and Kobe did things happen for him. Kerr struggled with Warriors as soon as he lost his stars to injury.

It's not a check or egg argument to me. I've coached, even though it wasn't a very high level. We were great when my stars were healthy, even had a ref say he has been doing this a long time and he was very impressed with how well coached he thought my team was. But when my stars were missing my team struggled..we.went from dominate to scratching and clawing for wins. And then when my mvp returned.to the line up, my team went back to crushing opponents. I do feel like I coached them well and got the best out of them, but man I also know how much having talent matters. It matters more than coaching. Talent can over come bad coaching better than coaching can overcome bad talent.

Staley gets it. He said the words, "we all know what our record is without Derwin James, this whole movie is different without him".

We didn't add Hopkins and Roberts just because coaches suck. If coaches are so great then coach up Viz and Hill. Why replace them? .... because talent matters more.

[Caslon]

I don’t read long evaluations that elisit other equally long evaluations. They tangent out. That’s ok. Carry on fans.

[Caslon]

Says the guy who loves reading 6 paragraph reply posts. Life is too short. Since you find my post non-sencical, why did you just satarize my post and not join in with a
4 paragraph reply of your own? Easy to stupid judge, isn’t it?

[richpjr]

agree...... the past draft was loaded with good RBs...... yet Chargers did not grab any of the good ones...even though we had major need.... 49ers who were loaded at RB, drafted 2 really talented backs..... NE also loaded at RB but still drafted Stevenson (whom i wanted Chargers to draft)..... 49ers dont even use sermon...maybe we could trade for him to rotate with Ekler.....

The 49ers are 2-4 so I'm not sure I'd point to that team as something to model.

[richpjr]

Bill Belichick is easily the best NFL coach I have ever seen. What he isn't is a particularly good GM. But he got every ounce of production out of some of those teams that had no business winning championships.