Week 18 Bolts @ Raiders Final - Pre Game Discussion

[Parcells]

I'd be surprised if Harbaugh takes this job, if for no other reason than he doesn't want to be in the same division as Herbert and Mahomes.

[Xenos]

I have never said anything other than that Herbert's pass was not good on the Palmer INT against HOU. However, it is difficult to miss that Palmer did absolutely nothing to prevent the INT from taking place. He basically just watched it happen--poor reaction to the pass, complete failure to recognize that the defender was undercutting a pass that Palmer decided to run away from for no reason at all. Compare that to the Guyton long TD against CIN (also a less than perfect pass) where Guyton ran back to the ball and into the defender to make the catch despite the defender committing pass interference against Guyton on the play.

The Palmer can do no wrong bullshit is really getting old. Of course he could have attempted to make a play on the ball instead of doing nothing until after the INT. In fact, Palmer has been awful on deep passes--basically an INT every time he has been targeted deep when neither pass should have resulted in an INT (because if the WR is not going to catch the ball, he can at least prevent the defender from doing so).

The real deep pass threats playing for us have caused no such INT issues when targeted. Mike Williams has been targeted 112 times--no INTs when the ball has been thrown to him. That is the most targets of any WR that has had no INTs with the ball thrown to him. There have been no INTs also when Jalen Guyton has been targeted (39 times).

Palmer is a solid reserve in the short and medium passing game, but has proven to be a liability in the deep passing game. It is laughable that some think he could possibly be a replacement for Mike Williams in the 2022 season (if Williams is not re-signed).

Herbert severely underthrows a deep ball to Palmer that would have been a TD (it was a line throw instead of a rainbow) and it’s Palmer’s fault for getting deep separation and not being able to turn back to prevent a TD? He did everything right on that play. Herbert just messed up and screwed him over on that play.

You really are a piece of work. It’s not that Palmer can do no wrong. It’s that you are so extremely bias that in your warped reality everything Palmer does is wrong. The fact that you think he was running away from the play shows everyone how much you actually understand, as well as your bias.

[jamrock]

I'd be surprised if Harbaugh takes this job, if for no other reason than he doesn't want to be in the same division as Herbert and Mahomes.

Harbaugh just had his best season at Michigan. Why do people think he’ll leave?

[Parcells]

Harbaugh just had his best season at Michigan. Why do people think he’ll leave?

The word is he is here in Vegas for the game and people are speculating he may take the job.

[Guest]

So given 'our defensive options', T-billy might have a big game. What might that be: 2 catches for 15 yards?

No, again, you seem to be missing my point. If all of the their speedy WRs play at once, I am concerned that they may be able to pick out favorable matchups on any given play.

Johnson's presence may contribute to that happening, but it does not necessarily need to be Johnson that receives that ball.

All I am suggesting is that on paper our CBs may not match up very with that combination of WRs.

But the good news is that unless they go with 4 WRs, they would have to take Renfrow out to have that combination on the field, which should minimize its use.

[Guest]

If the Faiders even use T-Billy, I'm thinking it's ONE deep shot...so we better have an answer for it...more concerned about Renfrow, though...

Again, my concern is not so much Johnson individually, but the potential combined effect of Jackson, Jones and Johnson on the field at the same time in terms of creating favorable matchups for LV. It does not have to be Johnson making the play.

And to be clear, I do not necessarily think we will see the combination of Johnson, Jackson and Jones very much because the Raiders would have to go with 4 WRs if they wanted to keep Renfrow on the field, which they will want to do most of the time.

But I think it is silly for some posters here to be mocking that Johnson could see some game time today. IMO, that is not a favorable development for us and we need to be ready for that set of WRs.

[Guest]

Herbert severely underthrows a deep ball to Palmer that would have been a TD (it was a line throw instead of a rainbow) and it’s Palmer’s fault for getting deep separation and not being able to turn back to prevent a TD? He did everything right on that play. Herbert just messed up and screwed him over on that play.

You really are a piece of work. It’s not that Palmer can do no wrong. It’s that you are so extremely bias that in your warped reality everything Palmer does is wrong. The fact that you think he was running away from the play shows everyone how much you actually understand, as well as your bias.

You keep leading your discussion with the concept that Herbert underthrew the ball. Again, we do not disagree on that point. A better pass would likely have been a TD. But that is not the end of the analysis.

Another problem is that when the ball was in the air, the defender read the ball and Palmer did not. At some point, Palmer has to know that that ball is going to be short. He needs to work back to the ball instead of displaying the reflexes of a dead cat while the ball is in the air. It was a bad throw, but also a poor job by Palmer of reading/reacting to the pass.

Finally, to be clear, it is not my bias that this discussion is showing. It is yours and that of others who give Palmer a pass with respect to every weak result he produces and who oversell routine plays that Palmer makes.

I have actually been very objective about Palmer all along. I projected him to have 40 receptions for 480 yards. He is likely to come up short of what I have projected as he is currently at 29 receptions for 308 yards. I thought the team would throw to him a little bit more based upon the hype received before the season began. But he is still going to finish in the general range that I predicted in terms of receptions, yards and yards per reception (though we have obviously thrown short to WRs more than I think just about anyone would have thought with Herbert as our QB, which has slightly lowered Palmer's yards per reception).

Before the season, I said I did not like him on deep passes (specifically stating that I did not see a very fast WR or a WR that was all that gifted with the ability to win the ball in the air) or against press coverage and I thought he would struggle at times to gain separation because he is not really that fast or quick. I think I have been pretty damn accurate about all of those takes.

[powderblueboy]

No, again, you seem to be missing my point. If all of the their speedy WRs play at once, I am concerned that they may be able to pick out favorable matchups on any given play.

Johnson's presence may contribute to that happening, but it does not necessarily need to be Johnson that receives that ball.

All I am suggesting is that on paper our CBs may not match up very with that combination of WRs.

But the good news is that unless they go with 4 WRs, they would have to take Renfrow out to have that combination on the field, which should minimize its use.

Johnson's speed means what...that Charger safeties move up to take away his short/intermediate routes and the other receivers get separation deep?

I'm starting to think there is no point.

[Xenos]

You keep leading your discussion with the concept that Herbert underthrew the ball. Again, we do not disagree on that point. A better pass would likely have been a TD. But that is not the end of the analysis.

Another problem is that when the ball was in the air, the defender read the ball and Palmer did not. At some point, Palmer has to know that that ball is going to be short. He needs to work back to the ball instead of displaying the reflexes of a dead cat while the ball is in the air. It was a bad throw, but also a poor job by Palmer of reading/reacting to the pass.

Finally, to be clear, it is not my bias that this discussion is showing. It is yours and that of others who give Palmer a pass with respect to every weak result he produces and who oversell routine plays that Palmer makes.

I have actually been very objective about Palmer all along. I projected him to have 40 receptions for 480 yards. He is likely to come up short of what I have projected as he is currently at 29 receptions for 308 yards. I thought the team would throw to him a little bit more based upon the hype received before the season began. But he is still going to finish in the general range that I predicted in terms of receptions, yards and yards per reception (though we have obviously thrown short to WRs more than I think just about anyone would have thought with Herbert as our QB, which has slightly lowered Palmer's yards per reception).

Before the season, I said I did not like him on deep passes (specifically stating that I did not see a very fast WR or a WR that was all that gifted with the ability to win the ball in the air) or against press coverage and I thought he would struggle at times to gain separation because he is not really that fast or quick. I think I have been pretty damn accurate about all of those takes.

No one gives Palmer a pass when he makes a bad play. He should have caught the TD against the Denver last week for example. What is clear is that you blame him for everything including things that are not his fault. Going so far as making things up even when there’s video evidence to prove otherwise. Palmer has shown that he can get separation and be a deep threat. It’s just too bad that Herbert messed up on a few of those times, leading to not only missed TDs, but turnovers. The one against Houston was especially egregious. An easy TD there may have changed the game’s final outcome.

[JOJAX85]

Harbaugh just had his best season at Michigan. Why do people think he’ll leave?

Even if the money is the same, I've got the feeling the transfer portal is getting too much to deal with and is worse than dealing with FAs in the league. I'm just speculating, but I can see how that is an annoyance.

[Formula 21]

Herbert severely underthrows a deep ball to Palmer that would have been a TD (it was a line throw instead of a rainbow) and it’s Palmer’s fault for getting deep separation and not being able to turn back to prevent a TD? He did everything right on that play. Herbert just messed up and screwed him over on that play.

You really are a piece of work. It’s not that Palmer can do no wrong. It’s that you are so extremely bias that in your warped reality everything Palmer does is wrong. The fact that you think he was running away from the play shows everyone how much you actually understand, as well as your bias.

I too believe that Palmer should have slowed down and not let the safety undercut him. If he slows down, he blocks out the safety and makes him go over his back to deflect the ball. It’s the receiver’s job to go get the ball. I expect Palmer to learn from the play.

[cmplxgal]