Herbert vs His Peers

[gzubeck]

drinking it!

:koolaid:

[equivocation]

Herbert took a significant leap as a professional QB (not just a pjysical talent) last year. Whatever else people say about the coaching staff, they cultivated the most important player on the team.

[HerbieParadigm]

Xenos & equivocation nailed it. Staley unleashed Herbert to see what he could do, with the 4th quarter of the last game of the season punctuating his mantra of "On my command unleash hell", lol. Does Staley understand how reactive opposing defenses will become when Herbert led O goes for it on 4th most of the time regardless of the situation? I believe he does.

Now how FA and the draft unfold will reveal priority 1 for the D approach. In simplest of terms, get the ball back into the hands of Herbert as quickly & frequently as possible. A game wrecking edge rusher and ball hawking secondary player are essential. James is the game wrecker in the secondary Staley will play akin to Troy of the Steelers. Is there a TJ Watt in this draft when the Chargers select, probably. Interior pocket collapser and interior LB players are ingredients Staley will address.

On O for me, get Gasicki for TE and RT in the 2nd & 3rd rounds. Now Herbert will be playing with a lead, forcing his Peers into considerable duress starting with Mahommes.

[richpjr]

I am really interested to see how Herbert responds after actually getting to run the same offense with the same OC for 2 years in a row, something he has not experienced. With his work ethic, intelligence and another offseason and camp to work on things, he will only be better this year - and that is saying something.

[Bolt-O]

I am really interested to see how Herbert responds after actually getting to run the same offense with the same OC for 2 years in a row, something he has not experienced. With his work ethic, intelligence and another offseason and camp to work on things, he will only be better this year - and that is saying something.

I do too. If there is a comparative track, it would be either Mahomes, who really broke out in his second season (after sitting out most of his first season), or Josh Allen, who started to come on in his thrid season, but I would say after his second season, I think Justin can burst fully into the 'elite' QB category. I think some think he's already there, I think he's still a little short on his touch in the short to immediate routes. In any case, the D can not give up quick turnaround scores, as we know that when needed, JH10 and the O can score quickly.

[DerwinBosa]

So, your take is to ignore the large regular season sample size and cherry pick one or a few isolated games. As I have stated previously, your take establishes nothing. It is ridiculous on its face.

Of course, it is problematic to run the ball heavily when the team has an elite QB. In 2021, every team that had both an elite QB and threw the ball in the top 5 in terms of percentage of passing plays produced a top 5 scoring offense--without exception. It is better for those teams not to be anywhere near balanced. And we are one of those teams.

It is common sense. Put the ball a lot in the hands of your elite player that is capable of making the single greatest difference in offensive production.

My prediction is that you will implode 10-15 years from now when the percentages have skewed another 5% toward the pass and teams start coming in passing the ball over 70% of the time for the entire season. And you will not comprehend as you do not now how teams like that that also have elite QBs will be among the top scoring teams every time.

At some point, you will have to figure that we are not playing 1990s NFL football any longer. Balance for the sake of balance is laughable.

I have given plenty of examples of recent Super Bowl-winning teams using a better-balanced attack in the playoffs to win the most crucial games. You have chosen to ignore them because you don't want to admit you're wrong, and it's more important to you if Justin Herbert is considered by everyone as the greatest quarterback in the NFL by far than it is to see the Chargers win the Super Bowl.

[DerwinBosa]

I never stated that every individual physical trait of the QB had to be elite for the QB to be elite. How could I with Lamar Jackson and Deshaun Watson on my list of elite QBs? Young was an elite runner at QB and a very accurate passer whose arm strength was slightly underrated. Young is arguably the most underrated QB in NFL history.

Your take on Pennington is so laughably lame that it is truly pathetic. Pennington was faster and more elusive than Burrow. And before he had multiple nearly career ending shoulder injuries, his arm strength was an awful lot like Burrow's--a little below average. It only became very weak after he sustained serious injuries. The very weak armed later version of Pennington never would have been drafted in the first round if his arm strength were that much of an issue.

And I have actually made this comparison before, so you brought up nothing that I had not already considered. Pennington was once an above average QB that even led the league in completion percentage, TD% and passer rating in 2002. He was not very fast (only a little faster than Burrow) and did not have a great arm (just like Burrow), but he was very accurate. Sound like anyone who plays in today's NFL? You know, like Burrow.

I am not here to say that Roethlisberger was ever Allen or Herbert, but he was much more athletic than you were making him out to be. How many knew (before I posted about it) that Roethlisberger in his physical prime wins a foot race against Mahomes? And his arm strength was pretty good in his physical prime as well. He was never in Josh Allen territory, but he did have an above average arm.

Of course, the point is that players like Young and Roethlisberger are nowhere close to being physically similar to the far less physically gifted Burrow, whereas as Chad Pennington was very similar physically to Burrow. The players were within 1 inch of each other in height (Burrow is one inch taller). The players were similar in weight (Pennington was 9 pounds heavier). Pennington was under one tenth of a second faster than Burrow in the 40 with neither player being fast. Both had/have slightly below average NFL arms. Both were/are known for their passing accuracy.

I stopped reading when you said Pennington was faster and more elusive than Burrow. You're either making stuff up in a weak attempt to make Burrow look bad, or you don't know what you're talking about.

Pennington had 465 rushing yards in his 11-year career, which included 89 games and 81 starts. Burrow has 260 rushing yards in 26 regular-season games.

Pennington also had one of the weakest arms in the NFL, which Burrow does not possess currently.

[Boltjolt]

I have given plenty of examples of recent Super Bowl-winning teams using a better-balanced attack in the playoffs to win the most crucial games. You have chosen to ignore them because you don't want to admit you're wrong, and it's more important to you if Justin Herbert is considered by everyone as the greatest quarterback in the NFL by far than it is to see the Chargers win the Super Bowl.

Lol, 100% correct. Responds with nonsense. And he doesn't like Burrow and never really did so he says these things because.....yep, he was wrong about him.

[Xenos]

Lol, 100% correct. Responds with nonsense. And he doesn't like Burrow and never really did so says these things because.....yep, he was wrong about him.

If Burrow was our QB, would he talking as much trash? I don’t think so.

[Boltjolt]

If Burrow was our QB, would he talking as much trash? I don’t think so.

Nope. He also said Lawrence was a once in a lifetime QB coming up thru the draft. Something to that effect.
So far, not so good but he has time and getting rid of Urban Failure should help.

[Guest]

I stopped reading when you said Pennington was faster and more elusive than Burrow. You're either making stuff up in a weak attempt to make Burrow look bad, or you don't know what you're talking about.

Pennington had 465 rushing yards in his 11-year career, which included 89 games and 81 starts. Burrow has 260 rushing yards in 26 regular-season games.

Pennington also had one of the weakest arms in the NFL, which Burrow does not possess currently.

It is obvious that you stopped reading since you missed the discussion provided.

Pennington did not always have a super weak arm as you have previously suggested. It took multiple career threatening injuries for that to happen. He was a first round draft pick, which never would have happened had his arm been anywhere remotely close to as weak as it was at the end of his career.

He was a successful QB early in his career as well.

Pennington was faster than Burrow is now. Burrow runs in the 4.9s in the 40. Pennington runs in the 4.8s. Rushing yards and QB speed are not the same thing. For example, in Russell Wilson's 24 and 25-year-old seasons he ran for fewer yards than Josh Allen did and had a lower YPC, yet Wilson is faster than Allen is and faster by more than the difference between Pennington and Burrow, which is very small (with a slight edge to Pennington).

Early in Pennington's career before his shoulder injuries, he was just like Burrow is now--similar arm strength, similar ability to run, and similar accuracy, similar size, et cetera. The comparison is actually a pretty good one.

[Guest]

Lol, 100% correct. Responds with nonsense. And he doesn't like Burrow and never really did so he says these things because.....yep, he was wrong about him.

I had Burrow as the second best QB in the 2020 draft class and had Herbert as the best QB in the draft class. As far as I am aware, I am the only person on this forum that has had that exactly right from before the draft until now.

So, it seems like you have a strange definition of "wrong".