Herbert vs His Peers

[Guest]

Nope. He also said Lawrence was a once in a lifetime QB coming up thru the draft. Something to that effect.
So far, not so good but he has time and getting rid of Urban Failure should help.

Lawrence certainly has not proved me correct in my take on him yet. We will see if he has a Josh Allen type growth curve or if he just is not anywhere close to as good as I thought he was.

I agree and have myself made the point previously that being in Jacksonville with Meyer and no real offensive support has not helped Lawrence.

[Guest]

If Burrow was our QB, would he talking as much trash? I don’t think so.

Given the completely lame takes on Burrow by some on this forum, I could only imagine how bad it would be if we were stuck with Burrow instead of having Herbert.

I have tried to be objective about players no matter which teams they play for and I have called out what I see as wide spread misperceptions about players.

I see common mistakes made in assessments of players. People become enamored with QBs that play for teams that win in the playoffs even though it means nothing about how good the QB is. This latest cycle with Burrow only has provided further evidence of that. He played two awful games and a mediocre game in his last three playoffs games and yet people discuss how "Burrow led his team to victory" in those games.

The notion is among the stupidest NFL related thoughts offered and yet it actually has some traction. Yet, any attempted objective presentation regarding Burrow's performance is challenged by some clueless individuals that simply seem incapable of making an objective evaluation of how the player actually played.

[gzubeck]

Lawrence certainly has not proved me correct in my take on him yet. We will see if he has a Josh Allen type growth curve or if he just is not anywhere close to as good as I thought he was.

I agree and have myself made the point previously that being in Jacksonville with Meyer and no real offensive support has not helped Lawrence.

Pederson will help him big time! I don't know if it will manifest in a huge jump in wins but there should be noticeable improvement.

:coffee:

[Guest]

I have given plenty of examples of recent Super Bowl-winning teams using a better-balanced attack in the playoffs to win the most crucial games. You have chosen to ignore them because you don't want to admit you're wrong, and it's more important to you if Justin Herbert is considered by everyone as the greatest quarterback in the NFL by far than it is to see the Chargers win the Super Bowl.

You have offered individual game performances as if they meant anything. They do not.

I have chosen to ignore them because your approach is obviously asinine on its face and is so ridiculous that it does not warrant much of a response other than to note that everyone else in the room gets that a larger sample size like a whole season is more reliable than an individual game sample size.

Thus, the whole season examples of top 5 offensive scoring success had over full seasons with elite QBs like Brady, Herbert and Mahomes throwing in the top 5 in terms of percentage of plays passing the ball completely trumps your lame one game Super Bowl examples and totally disproves your contention that it is a bad thing for Herbert (or any other elite QB) to have thrown the ball in the range of 672 or more times.

I would actually like to see us throw at even a higher percentage of the time because that will help the offense perform even better, which will help our team win by scoring more points.

[Boltjolt]

Pederson will help him big time! I don't know if it will manifest in a huge jump in wins but there should be noticeable improvement.

:coffee:

Agree, Peterson made Foles look good so he should help Lawrence. Not sure he ever gets to Herbert's level......or Burrow but should be noticably better next season.

[DerwinBosa]

It is obvious that you stopped reading since you missed the discussion provided.

Pennington did not always have a super weak arm as you have previously suggested. It took multiple career threatening injuries for that to happen. He was a first round draft pick, which never would have happened had his arm been anywhere remotely close to as weak as it was at the end of his career.

He was a successful QB early in his career as well.

Pennington was faster than Burrow is now. Burrow runs in the 4.9s in the 40. Pennington runs in the 4.8s. Rushing yards and QB speed are not the same thing. For example, in Russell Wilson's 24 and 25-year-old seasons he ran for fewer yards than Josh Allen did and had a lower YPC, yet Wilson is faster than Allen is and faster by more than the difference between Pennington and Burrow, which is very small (with a slight edge to Pennington).

Early in Pennington's career before his shoulder injuries, he was just like Burrow is now--similar arm strength, similar ability to run, and similar accuracy, similar size, et cetera. The comparison is actually a pretty good one.

Of course you equate elusiveness and game speed to a 40 time, a drill that requires a quarterback to run in a straight line with no pads on. Unbelievable. LOL. Do you think Jerry Rice was slow, too, after he ran a 4.71?

Pennington was never a scrambler. He rushed for 61 yards in college.He was a pocket passer with a very weak arm, even prior to injury, but excelled to a certain level in the Bill Walsh system because of his accuracy. That 4.8 time you're clinging to was probably much slower as he got deeper into the NFL, since picking up yards with his legs was never his game.

Burrow rushed for 820 yards in college. Justin Herbert had 560 as an Oregon Duck. (Note: I'm not saying Burrow is faster than Herbert by providing this fact). Burrow, while not Lamar Jackson, is not Philip Rivers or Bernie Kosar,. Even after his season-ending injury as a rookie, Burrow is capable of making plays with his legs. You choose not to see that because you don't want to admit you're wrong.

[Boltjolt]

Burrow didn't even run a 40 at the combine or his proday lol. C Mon man,. .Irrelevant anyways.

All that above from Chain is irrelevant. Who cares if Wilson is faster than Allen? Wilson gets sacked more than any QB in the league because he holds the ball too long. ...even after years in the league.
Burrow will be far better than Pennington wished he were.

Chain just making shit up again to talk crap about Burrow.

[DerwinBosa]

You have offered individual game performances as if they meant anything. They do not.

I have chosen to ignore them because your approach is obviously asinine on its face and is so ridiculous that it does not warrant much of a response other than to note that everyone else in the room gets that a larger sample size like a whole season is more reliable than an individual game sample size.

Thus, the whole season examples of top 5 offensive scoring success had over full seasons with elite QBs like Brady, Herbert and Mahomes throwing in the top 5 in terms of percentage of plays passing the ball completely trumps your lame one game Super Bowl examples and totally disproves your contention that it is a bad thing for Herbert (or any other elite QB) to have thrown the ball in the range of 672 or more times.

I would actually like to see us throw at even a higher percentage of the time because that will help the offense perform even better, which will help our team win by scoring more points.

You're choosing not to recognize the FACT that recent Super Bowl champions used a better-balanced attack over their ENTIRE playoff runs, not single games. The 2020 Buccaneers AVERAGED 30 rushes and 34 passes over FOUR PLAYOFF GAMES to WIN THE SUPER BOWL. In 2018 Tom Brady had two touchdown passes during his ENTIRE PLAYOFF RUN (not one game) to win his sixth Super Bowl title, while his running back, Sony Michel (who will never be considered close to elite), had THREE TIMES AS MANY rushing touchdowns, with six. During that postseason run the Patriots AVERAGED 38 rushes and 42 passes OVER THREE GAMES.

This is truly a waste of my time. For years, well over a decade, we have watched this team fail on third- and fourth-and-short or goal in key situations repeatedly. We haven't had a consistent running game for the majority of the time since Marty was fired. The few times we have had that, such as 2013 (when Ryan Mathews rushed for 1,255 yards) and 2018 (when Melvin Gordon had a 5.1-yard average and would have had at least 1,200 yards if he had played 16 games instead of 12), we made playoffs, which were the only years we've done that since 2010. But your solution is to have Justin Herbert air it out and forget about having a balanced attack because he's great. You'll claim running the football isn't important anymore, but then you'll probably whine about how our run defense sucked last season and was a huge reason we didn't make the playoffs. It's unbelievable.

[dmac_bolt]

I have given plenty of examples of recent Super Bowl-winning teams using a better-balanced attack in the playoffs to win the most crucial games. You have chosen to ignore them because you don't want to admit you're wrong, and it's more important to you if Justin Herbert is considered by everyone as the greatest quarterback in the NFL by far than it is to see the Chargers win the Super Bowl.

I shall argue that if not for the Rams unrelenting suffocation of the Bengals’ Offense, their own inability to run the ball would have caused them to lose the last SB. That said, run-only teams are doomed - better to have a great pass attack than a great rush attack in 2022. Since OL is so key to both, its unusual a team is great at one and horrible at the other.

[dmac_bolt]

Given the completely lame takes on Burrow by some on this forum, I could only imagine how bad it would be if we were stuck with Burrow instead of having Herbert.

I have tried to be objective about players no matter which teams they play for and I have called out what I see as wide spread misperceptions about players.

I see common mistakes made in assessments of players. People become enamored with QBs that play for teams that win in the playoffs even though it means nothing about how good the QB is. This latest cycle with Burrow only has provided further evidence of that. He played two awful games and a mediocre game in his last three playoffs games and yet people discuss how "Burrow led his team to victory" in those games.

The notion is among the stupidest NFL related thoughts offered and yet it actually has some traction. Yet, any attempted objective presentation regarding Burrow's performance is challenged by some clueless individuals that simply seem incapable of making an objective evaluation of how the player actually played.

If burrow was on LAC, the forum would be trashing how shitty Herbert is. (Just a theory …)

[gzubeck]

If burrow was on LAC, the forum would be trashing how shitty Herbert is. (Just a theory …)

Dam...and to think he's not good enough to play both sides of the ball and make those tackles for the defense on critical plays!

:shifty:

[Boltjolt]

If burrow was on LAC, the forum would be trashing how shitty Herbert is. (Just a theory …)

Lol, somebody please tell Chain that the misconceptions and cluelessness are his.

Dude is a stat guy.. that's all he has. He doesn't understand the game. He just knows numbers for his arguments.....like a petty 40 time for Pennington and Burrow ... For which Burrow never even ran but made one up lol.

Geezus even on ignore I have to see some of his jibberish.