Who Do You Take Out Of These Players?

[AK47]

I think McDuffie is a top 12 prospect which could fall to us.

That said if both Davis and Penning are still there I'd take Davis first. He'd increase our D-line depth, bolster run defense, free up and springboard guys like Bosa and Mack, would make for a smashing lead blocker for Eckler. The short term win now solution.

Penning has the physical tools and needs some refinement to his game. Give him 1-2 seasons. I actually think he has the potential to have a long NFL career. Presents to the long term solution.

[Guest]

Thanks equivocation and Ghost of Quack. for the info. So Penning doesn't sound like a slam dunk to excel in the NFL.

No drafted player is ever a guaranteed lock to excel in the NFL. Several people, myself included, had some concerns about how Slater's size and arm length would play in the NFL. The year before, many expressed concern about Herbert as an NFL QB. So-called "can't miss" players have missed and missed badly.

However, if one is attempting to minimize risk, then Penning is a good bet to make. What we know is the following:

1. Penning's college teammate, Spencer Brown, won the starting RT job for BUF. This forced Daryl Williams to kick inside to RG last year. This is the same Daryl Williams that some people on this forum want us to consider as a "solid/safe" RT free agent candidate.

2. Penning is better than Brown. Penning is younger than Brown and yet played LT over Brown when both were at UNI. Brown was a third round prospect. Penning is a first round prospect.

3. Penning tested as the most athletic OT in this year's draft class based upon RAS value.

4. Penning's combined tested movement skills are better on the whole than Slater's were and Slater moves very well for an OT.

5. Penning is very strong. He set the squat record at UNI.

6. Penning is a nasty mauler of an OL player.

7. When Penning did play against a top 10 pass rusher in the nation in terms of sacks (Will McDonald IV), he did very well against him.

8. Penning scored the highest run blocking grade ever given by PFF.

9. Penning gave up one sack in 654 snaps in 2021.

Overall, even if Brown did not exist, I think the degree of uncertainty expressed about Penning is over the top for a fairly safe mid first round draft pick. But the presence of Brown at both UNI with Penning and in the NFL as a solid starting RT really drives the point home.

If Player A plays with Player B and everyone can see that Player B is better than Player A, and Player A then goes on to establish himself as a solid NFL player, is it reasonable to conclude that Player B is likely to be at least some more successful than Player A? Of course it is. The projected first round player should end up being better than the projected third round player that was not as good as the younger first round player when the two were playing for the same offense at the same time. Brown's success as a rookie bodes well for Penning.

To me, it seems like some people are going a very long way out of the way to ignore a whole lot of favorable relevant information about Penning. He is as much of a slam dunk candidate as anyone would likely be at 1-17 and more so than most.

Honestly, it is mind boggling to me how some of the same people that would have us sign Daryl Williams to play RT for us, a player that was beat out at RT by Brown, question whether or not Penning can play RT for us when Penning is better than Brown, the guy that beat out Daryl Williams.

And instead of getting a starting RT, some want us as part of our "win now" mode to select a slender one hit wonder WR coming off of a torn ACL just two months ago that will likely not be ready to contribute on day 1 and that would at best be a #3 WR for us if and when he fully recovers from a major injury. Apparently, none of that represents a risk, but Penning, who would fill a badly needed starting role, somehow does. It is insane.

[AK47]

1. Penning's college teammate, Spencer Brown, won the starting RT job for BUF. This forced Daryl Williams to kick inside to RG last year. This is the same Daryl Williams that some people on this forum want us to consider as a "solid/safe" RT free agent candidate.

2. Penning is better than Brown. Penning is younger than Brown and yet played LT over Brown when both were at UNI. Brown was a third round prospect. Penning is a first round prospect.

3. Penning tested as the most athletic OT in this year's draft class based upon RAS value.

4. Penning's combined tested movement skills are better on the whole than Slater's were and Slater moves very well for an OT.

5. Penning is very strong. He set the squat record at UNI.

6. Penning is a nasty mauler of an OL player.

7. When Penning did play against a top 10 pass rusher in the nation in terms of sacks (Will McDonald IV), he did very well against him.

8. Penning scored the highest run blocking grade ever given by PFF.

9. Penning gave up one sack in 654 snaps in 2021.

There's players in the NBA his height and 100lbs lighter whom can't do a windmill slam dunk.

[equivocation]

I wanted to draft Brown in the 3rd last year. His PFF pass blocking grade was <60 if I recall correctly. Can't look it up now. He had many of the same issues (gimmicky offense, doesn't have to pass set, etc). That works in the 3rd round.

[Lone Bolt]

Huge fan of Davis...but regardless of the rumors about the Bolts really liking him, (smoke?) not sure he is a Staley guy...I would put my money on Wyatt over Davis if they both happen to be at 17.

Dont get me wrong...totally think this so called Big Lazy talk is garbage...but I could see him settling into his career as more of a 2 gap block eater...which is valuable in some schemes(Vea and the Bucs) I think Staley prefers a more aggressive, penetrating defense...I dont see Davis being that athletic 3 years down the road...but Wyatt will be...just a hunch.

[Guest]

I wanted to draft Brown in the 3rd last year. His PFF pass blocking grade was <60 if I recall correctly. Can't look it up now. He had many of the same issues (gimmicky offense, doesn't have to pass set, etc). That works in the 3rd round.

I wanted Brown (and Trey Smith) in the third round last year.

Penning is way better than Brown, which is why, whether you are concerned about it or not, the vast majority of pundits have Penning as a first round guy (some even as a top 10 guy) versus Brown being a third round guy.

I think you are overstating Penning's weaknesses. I guess time will tell which of us is correct.

[equivocation]

Some background:

1. I played OL and DL in HS (5'10, 180#)
2. Background in wrestling and boxing
3. I keep up with trench theory and technique (Thorn, Manyweather, etc)
4. I started film study of draft prospects again last year and focus on OT primarily.
5. About 2 hours of film study of Penning.

I have these grades for guys I deep dive on

Penning early 2nd
Raimann mid 2nd
Lucas mid 2nd
Darrisaw mid 1st
Brown early 3rd
Leatherwood late 3rd
Jenkins early 2nd (higher floor lower ceiling than Penning)
Little mid 2nd

Brown struggled as a pass blocker this year. He has better balance and bend than Penning and didn't have to switch sides.

[Guest]

Huge fan of Davis...but regardless of the rumors about the Bolts really liking him, (smoke?) not sure he is a Staley guy...I would put my money on Wyatt over Davis if they both happen to be at 17.

Dont get me wrong...totally think this so called Big Lazy talk is garbage...but I could see him settling into his career as more of a 2 gap block eater...which is valuable in some schemes(Vea and the Bucs) I think Staley prefers a more aggressive, penetrating defense...I dont see Davis being that athletic 3 years down the road...but Wyatt will be...just a hunch.

I do not see Davis as Big Lazy like Gaither was. Gaither did not want to play football, but he wanted money, so he went all out for 5 games in 2012 and overemphasized the first minor injury he had so he could get the money without playing.

I see Davis as a gifted player that may lack some discipline in part because he is so gifted (allowing him to get away with a lack of discipline). He has acknowledged playing with his weight around 360 or so. His weight does not look like good weight at 340. He should be all the way down to about 325 pounds, maybe even less, to maximize his ability to make plays and to remain on the field. His stamina is in question. It is difficult to be a even a two-down player when you can only average one down played per full series of downs. In that respect, Davis frustrates me as a draft candidate.

The ability is there to be a very good NFL player, but where is the weight control and conditioning? Would it be better to have a player that is 90-95% as good as Davis in Travis Jones that is clearly in good shape and able to stay on the field?

I do not necessarily disagree with your take as to Wyatt either, but I sure hope we do not take him at 1-17. That seems like a significant reach to me.

[AK47]

Some background:

1. I played OL and DL in HS (5'10, 180#)
2. Background in wrestling and boxing
3. I keep up with trench theory and technique (Thorn, Manyweather, etc)
4. I started film study of draft prospects again last year and focus on OT primarily.
5. About 2 hours of film study of Penning.

I have these grades for guys I deep dive on

Penning early 2nd
Raimann mid 2nd
Lucas mid 2nd
Darrisaw mid 1st
Brown early 3rd
Leatherwood late 3rd
Jenkins early 2nd (higher floor lower ceiling than Penning)
Little mid 2nd

Brown struggled as a pass blocker this year. He has better balance and bend than Penning and didn't have to switch sides.

Sounds like you would support a trade down netting us a total of ....a lot of picks this year. Probably should trade some for future 2023 picks.

[Riverwalk]

Like I said, I would be happy with Davis or Penning but I bet both of them are off the board by the time we pick.

[equivocation]

Also the Chargers had the 5th highest rate of traditional drop back passes last year. They expect the tackles to play on an island with minimal help. It's the opposite scheme of NIU, which is why Cross, Lucas, Zion, and Raimann are all better scheme fits.

When Penning was put in expected pass situations without help (ISU, NDSU) he looked like Norton vs Crosby week 18 (25% pressure rate)

[electricgold]

I'm taking Jameson Williams at #17 if he's there. I think adding Jameson to the WR group and signing someone like Billy Turneer/starting Pipkins at RT is more of a value add than drafting Penning.

Joshua Palmer was drafted to fill the role Jameson would if picked at 17 I doubt he would replace Guyton ... It's got to be a CB, EDGE, DT, or RT....

Unless there is a Deebo etc... However there won't be probably at #17, but then again Deebo was drafted in the 2nd round?