Post Draft OL Discussion

[Boltjolt]

the worry is less about a singular position, and more about.... are we going to put our best five (or six) OL out there ??

as mentioned before, think Zion is the best LG on the roster, and that Salyer may be the best RT on the roster, and which leaves Feiler @RG.

also don't think the neither of Storm nor Pips are in the pick six for our Oline.... I'll take Salyer against Mack in practice over any of the others.

I dont know if Salyer is the best option at RT right now. He has way more snaps as a LT than a RT. 1100 to 163 with zero of those at RT last season as he played LT and RG.
Saying he is an instant upgrade at RT is just something posters like to say but they really have no idea and our current RTs have a lot more NFL experience than he does, so that is a claim i dont believe till he shows it.

I know your agenda is wanting to keep Zion at LG instead of RG and that seems to be a thing for you judging by always saying Feeney was out of place ( imo he just wasnt very good) but most OL seem to show a penchant for being able to play all over. If Zion can play OC in a pinch as, many like to point out because he played a handfull of snaps there in there senior bowl...... and think he can be a OC for us(which i doubt thats why we drafted him) then he should be fine to play RG.

The coaching staff will determine where best to play these guys although this forum thinks they know better. Maybe Salyer can be a RT in time but is he better than Storm or Pip? I like the value we got with him but not sure he is a NFL OT.

[wu-dai clan]

We had a very good offense with Olivea as the weakest link.

This post is very underrated.
And very relevant.

[sonorajim]

Thanks for recent mature, informative OL posts.
The "we have no chance if Norton or Pipkins plays RT" are based on imagination. If last year's D had been avg, or better we were a playoff team.
BUT.....Last year's circumstances are last year.
Year 2 of Staley's Chargers looks promising.
OL got some love rd 1 and 6 of the draft plus FA depth. RB2 rd 3.
D received massive talent & scheme injections at all levels.
STs were not ignored.
2022 will be different. That's a lock.

[Formula 21]

The IOL vs OT thing is up in the air. For every example of a team that prioritizes one over the other, there are examples of both working or not working. And from our own experience last year, while Norton may have been the bigger weak spot, the OG pass protection was not exactly rock solid. Personally, I think the days of "getting by" with a substandard player at any position is over. It takes good players across the board and RG was a need. You don't pass on a guy you think is going to be a great player at a position of need because he plays the wrong position, unless there is a better option there at another position of need (RT), and there wasn't.

Personally, I think if one of the top OT had still been there, we would have taken the OT. This year, they were gone, but we still had an OG we really, really liked, so that made the decision. We had 2 spots to fill, At some point, we needed an OG and an OT. We have 2 young OT who are still developing and entering their 3rd and 4th years respectively, and OL tends to develop in about their 3rd or 4th year (on average). Both were players who improved significantly over the course of last season, and if they do start to fail again, we do have a fallback in Feiler, provided Salyer can adjust to the NFL game quickly.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-investigating-learning-curves-from-college-football-to-the-nfl

From the article:
"We continue our analysis with the trenches and start with the offensive line. There are two notable observations here:

1.) Offensive linemen struggle during their rookie season much more than other positions and, maybe even more interestingly, offensive linemen don't reach their full potential before Year 3 or even Year 4.

2.) Offensive tackles, in particular, seem to constantly develop throughout their rookie contract, as the recent example of D.J. Humphries illustrates. Humphries turned into a solid pass protector in his fourth year and earned himself an extension. While one should still exercise caution when observing a sudden breakout for an offensive lineman in Year 4, our findings yield an encouraging result and should increase our confidence in such performances being sustainable.

This means that one shouldn't give up on struggling offensive linemen too early, especially if they came into the league with a high draft stock. There is usually still plenty of hope that they could develop into the player they were supposed to be when drafted. Especially for tackles, who command higher salaries on the free market, this could mean that exercising the fifth-year option after three years could be valuable even if the player hasn't fulfilled the high expectation of a first-round pick.

Naturally, this advice only holds if the option doesn't become fully guaranteed the moment it's exercised, a change proposed with the new CBA. On the flip side, if a team is impatient and releases an offensive lineman after two years of disappointing results, a buy-low opportunity presents itself for 31 other teams. However, the grace period shouldn't last forever, as we've found that the potential peaks in Year 4. We've also found that, on average, there is no further significant development to be expected from Year 5 on."

There are no guarantees when building a roster. The history of the draft and FA tells us that every method is a crapshoot.

The vast majority of this year's FA signings WILL be busts. The Chargers have done what can be done to minimize that risk, but there is still a risk. The majority of draft picks WILL be busts. The safest way of building a franchise is to trade for players but not many good players are available that way, so it is kinda tough to build a franchise via trades (and the other teams in the division tend to not be very helpful).

As far as the Manyweather thing. He has a great track record of success with his clients. Again, no one is perfect, and I am sure if you look, you will find guys who didn't turn into better players after they worked with him. Most of his clients did get better and some of them improved dramatically. Yes, he has a bussiness to run, so he is hyping his client, that is part of his job. However, if he hypes a guy like Pipkin and then Pipkins fails, especially after the hype, Manyweather looks like an ass, and his endorsements won't mean shit going forward. That is not good for his Manyweather bussiness either. But the NFL personnel disclaimer still applies, there are no crystal balls, and you don't know who is going to be successful or not.

Hopefully, the Chargers are getting tapes from Pipkins workouts, or are even sending scouts and coaches to watch some of them. If I was TT I would ask to do so.

So Storm will be better in year 3? Maybe. Maybe there is some hope for him.

[sonorajim]

Lol, this “NO only cared about IOL” theory is a bit over played. they’ve had NFL quality tackles most of the time. having good guards is not a reason to have a shit tackle. 5 good players is better than 4 is better than 3 is better than 2.

TT saying interior OL is more important may be true, may be a sudden revelation because he sure never devoted much to IOL before, or may simply be him pointing at the area he made the improvement and saying “i did that on purpose”. I am glad he upgraded Scho and don’t know what others saw in him. IDGAF about PFFT ratings, I’z got two eyeballs and I know what I saw. Also think Feiler at LG was grossly over-rated. He’s not completely horrible but he was miles from pro bowl caliber. He looke a bit average imo.

Slater had trouble with Ngakoue but I'm reluctant to say he's over-rated. Being adequate to the moment and clearly winning some snaps works for me. I don't see Feiler as a Pro Bowl OG. On the plus side of avg, yes. Then again, year 2 in this O may see some improvement.

[powderblueboy]

Then the most popular Charger draft pick of all time, Forrest Lamp, never stood a chance after his injury:

switching positions from college, and then finally starting with little game experience on one of the worst Olines in football, surrounded by inexperience.

Poor P.R..

Lamp suffered an injury in Buffalo's preseason, and that was it.
There is a pecking order in this league, and if you are a 4 year vet with nothing to show for it....you're sunk.

[powderblueboy]

So Storm will be better in year 3? Maybe. Maybe there is some hope for him.

I wouldn't take that bet.

Rookie Olinemen are generally physically maturing and getting stronger over the course of their first 3 years; Storm is 28 years old.
Marginal improvement at best.....from substandard play to a slightly elevated form of substandard play.

[sonorajim]

I wouldn't take that bet.

Rookie Olinemen are generally physically maturing and getting stronger over the course of their first 3 years; Storm is 28 years old.
Marginal improvement at best.....from substandard play to a slightly elevated form of substandard play.

Storm's Year 3 of NFL training & experience is 2022. 28 is not ancient for an NFL OL.
His improvement is likely but adequate depth at RT may be his ceiling.

[beachcomber]

And that reason is medical. Salyer may be our best choice at ORT. There's a fat chance we see it though. I get a Trey Smith vibe. A man can dream.

anyone have a link to his medical concerns.... didn't follow along, but thought someone mentioned he was the dry humper.... isn't that why he fell (out of favor) ??

[beachcomber]

I’m going to wait to see him take a snap against a professional DE before I crown that 6th rounder as a great OT.

movin' the LOS on me.... didn't know that as dmac style ??

you know I used the word solid and not great, and from which the reference point from the previous post was re: mediocre/bad.

and not so sure why it's such a stretch for peoples in here to see Salyer as a solid NFL starter.... he had a day two grade, save for whatever off the field complications/concerns he might have had, and more importantly, he had a single digit number of pressures allowed last season, and.... if you follow the likes of Hayden Winks and other metric centric peoples they will tell you, that along w/their short shuttle time, that pressures allowed and (cough) their PFF grade in college, has the highest correlation to NFL success, for OTs.

if you look @most of the top tackles coming out, it is not uncommon to see a single digit amount of pressures on their resume.... don't think it's a stretch to see Salyer starting @RT.

will also add that is another reason why we likely got the better OG outta the deal, as Kenyon Green allowed a fair bit more pressure than other first round Olinemen.

[equivocation]

NFL OT tend to peak in year 4. Just saying. It's the position that takes the longest. Slater is the unicorn. Salyer is not a unicorn. I think he's a fine prospect and a great value pick, but give him a year or two. Like Jaimes.

Technique and mentality development is more important than physical development for an OL. Being able to stay patient when the game is that much faster takes confidence and maturity.

IOL is more important (shorter path to QB, can't step up) but OT are much harder to find so that sets the market.

[beachcomber]

27 was last year, actually . The DL / LBs stunk and DB depth was inadequate when starters missed 20 T games. I admit that surprised me.
The returning players know the scheme and several good to elite adds are familiar with Staley's D.
So you think Kahlil Mack, JC Jackson, Austin Johnson, Sebastion Joseph-Day, Morgan Fox, Troy Reeder and Kyle Van Noy plus draft picks won't make a difference?

again, unfortunately the reality is that, just like the draft, the odds are not in your favor in gaining yield from much more than half your FA haul.

so you tell me, which half of Khalil, JC Jack, Austin Johnson, SJDay, Fox, Reeder, Van Noy and/or Callahan, are gonna disappoint for you ??

will also add that while our run D indeed looks stouter, given the health of our IDL, can't say am overly optimistic for things outside of that.... way too many ?s

as mentioned before there are an awful lotta eggs in the basket that played but half a season last go 'round and the season before was on the injured list for every single game.

if Bosa is banged up and battered by season's end, how is our pass rush gonna be any better than it was last season ??

and did we replace what we had in pass D w/Kyzir ?? have we ever refilled the gap left by Denzel @MLB.

are you certain that we are going to be ok w/Mike D. and Asante ?? are you willing to guarantee them a clean bill of health, and that Davis will rebound from his off year.

and moving James up closer to the LOS.... he has a fairly substantial injury history as well, not to mention we are putting a fair bit of pressure on a third round rookie to be our insurance policy back there, and not to mention again.... are you going to halve Nasir's pass rating against from last year, which was over 120 ??

I'm w/you.... eye hope our depth and newfound Chargers will carry the day, albeit am of the suspicion that our roster has again been Telescoed, and not so sure we haven't been left unnecessarily exposed ??