AFC West Roster Positional Rankings

[chargeroo]

Mahomes is quite good. Put him on the Jets last year and they don’t go to the playoffs. It took heroics by Hill and Kelce to win 1 of 2 vs a putrid wretched Charger defense or we sweep the Chiefs - we had them beat in the second game and the defense folded like a cheap lawn chair with a minute to go, and then laid down on the grass for OT.

You can find ”what has he accomplished” in the dictionary under rear view mirror. You literally just asked about the past.

I got that feeling after watching him and Mahomes play. I don’t know for sure and neither do you. I didnt say he was the best in the NFL, I said he was better than Mahomes. I don’t like midget QBs. I guess you put Mahomes in the Best rank.

Mahomes is 6'3'', 227 - pretty tall for a midget.

[DerwinBosa]

l

Alex Smith was a 3rd - 4rth tier starting quarterback....Mahomes is clearly an upgrade.
They were a perennial playoff team under Smith going 1 - 3....each loss was a nail biter.
They didn't need to add much more; but alongside Mahomes came Sammy Watkins & Kareem Hunt.
There was a pronounced drop off when Hunt was kicked off the team.

Mahomes has been use to having the best talent outside of the qb position in the AFC west.
This year he arguably has the worst talent....lets see how frog boy pulls victories out of hats.

The only thing you're wrong about is Hunt. He was kicked off the team in 2018. They won the Super Bowl without him in 2019. I also think you're overvaluing Sammy Watkins, who's had one 1,000-yard season and can't stay on the field consistently.

I also think people are going to see Hill get really frustrated after moving from Mahomes to Tua.

[DerwinBosa]

Mahomes is quite good. Put him on the Jets last year and they don’t go to the playoffs. It took heroics by Hill and Kelce to win 1 of 2 vs a putrid wretched Charger defense or we sweep the Chiefs - we had them beat in the second game and the defense folded like a cheap lawn chair with a minute to go, and then laid down on the grass for OT.

You can find ”what has he accomplished” in the dictionary under rear view mirror. You literally just asked about the past.

I got that feeling after watching him and Mahomes play. I don’t know for sure and neither do you. I didnt say he was the best in the NFL, I said he was better than Mahomes. I don’t like midget QBs. I guess you put Mahomes in the Best rank.

I guess your definition of rear view mirror in football terms is much different than mine. Mahomes has been a starting quarterback for four years; Herbert for two. We're not talking about Mahomes being past his prime. What he's accomplished in his young career is still very relevant when comparing him to any quarterback. Much more so relevant than saying, "Herbert is better because I say so," and "Mahomes wouldn't have taken the Jets to the playoffs last year." As if Herbert would have taken the Jets to the playoffs last year. LOL.

Ugh...fanboys of quarterbacks say some ridiculous stuff. I love Herbert because he plays for the Chargers and is as much of an outstanding person as he is a quarterback. But you and Chain...never mind. LOL.

[Boltjolt]

l

Alex Smith was a 3rd - 4rth tier starting quarterback....Mahomes is clearly an upgrade.
They were a perennial playoff team under Smith going 1 - 3....each loss was a nail biter.
They didn't need to add much more; but alongside Mahomes came Sammy Watkins & Kareem Hunt.
There was a pronounced drop off when Hunt was kicked off the team.

Mahomes has been use to having the best talent outside of the qb position in the AFC west.
This year he arguably has the worst talent....lets see how frog boy pulls victories out of hats.

Sammy Watkins has been mediocre since 2016, which includes his time with KC.

[powderblueboy]

The only thing you're wrong about is Hunt. He was kicked off the team in 2018. They won the Super Bowl without him in 2019. I also think you're overvaluing Sammy Watkins, who's had one 1,000-yard season and can't stay on the field consistently.

I also think people are going to see Hill get really frustrated after moving from Mahomes to Tua.

Watkins was a good 3rd option his first two years, including the 2019 post season...something they haven't had since Mecole Hardman replaced him in the offense.
Being the 3rd option on a team with Kelce/Hill, you are not going to get a lot of targets.

They missed Hunt & Watkins the last 7 games of the 2018 season/post season: they went on to win 4 games & lose 3.
In the last game for both that season the Chief's offense scored 50 points against the Rams.

Chief's secondary drastically improved in 2019 with the addition of honey badger and a few others.
Under Alex Smith, the Chief's secondary was a running sewer.

[powderblueboy]

Sammy Watkins has been mediocre since 2016, which includes his time with KC.

He wasn't a pro bowler, but mediocre - no!
Injuries, having tyrod taylor throwing you the ball, and being the 3rd banana to Hill/Kelce disallowed him from putting up big stats

There was a distinct drop off in the Chief's offense once Hunt/Watkins were side lined in 2018.

[dmac_bolt]

Mahomes is 6'3'', 227 - pretty tall for a midget.

for argument’s sake, lets pretend to believe that. Stand him next to Justin and … voila - midget. He’s looking under armpits when the pressure comes, Justin is scanning the horizon like a Golden God from high above. Just looking at him its clear to see he’s not really 6’3”

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/patrick-mahomes/32004d41-4840-1939-e4c1-bb89191b4e71

[Boltjolt]

He wasn't a pro bowler, but mediocre - no!
Injuries, having tyrod taylor throwing you the ball, and being the 3rd banana to Hill/Kelce disallowed him from putting up big stats

There was a distinct drop off in the Chief's offense once Hunt/Watkins were side lined in 2018.

Tyrod was not throwing him the ball in KC where he had 40-519, 52-673 and 37-421with 8TDs in three seasons there. Hoping Palmer can top those this season.

He was the #2 WR in KC but yes he was injured often. I always thought he underachieved and don't consider him a top WR in the league. He has his moments. In 2020 Hardman and Demarcus Robinson had more receptions than he did...... But again he missed six games.

His two best seasons were his his first two in Buffalo and season two he had his only 1000 yard season..... With Tyrod.
His rookie season he had Kyle Orton as his QB.

[DerwinBosa]

He wasn't a pro bowler, but mediocre - no!
Injuries, having tyrod taylor throwing you the ball, and being the 3rd banana to Hill/Kelce disallowed him from putting up big stats

There was a distinct drop off in the Chief's offense once Hunt/Watkins were side lined in 2018.

I think that's a stretch. Doesn't matter, anyway. I don't even like the guy. Time for me to exit this conversation.

[Guest]

The 53 guys on the Chiefs were not even winning playoff games before Mahomes became their starter. Since then they have won a Super Bowl--and played in two Super Bowls and three conference championship games. Last year was considered a disappointment for him, and they lost in overtime in the Divisional Round to the team that almost won the Super Bowl. THAT was a disappointment. The guy is great. Yeah, it sucks, but hopefully we can beat the Chiefs more often than not.

I don't know why you keep bringing up team accomplishments, though, since I have made it a point not to.

Also, I'm not rear-viewing at all. Other than throwing one more touchdown pass than Mahomes last season, what exactly has Herbert accomplished INDIVIDUALLY that makes him the best quarterback in the NFL RIGHT NOW--clearly ahead of Mahomes? Don't tell me what's going to happen in the future, since you don't know for sure. How can you possibly say that after two years Justin Herbert is the best quarterback in the NFL?

Your take is just false. The Chiefs did win in the playoffs with Alex Smith at QB by a 30-0 score over HOU at the end of the 2015 season.

Also, it is ridiculous to blame Smith for the team's playoff loss to the Titans at the end of the 2017 season. Smith had a passer rating of over 116 for that game and threw 2 TD passes with zero INTs. KC wins that game if either Butker makes the FG he missed or Mariota does not score one of the greatest fluke playoff TDs of all time on a completed batted pass TD to himself on third down on the way to TEN winning 22-21. Also, it might have helped if KC's defense did not give up 202 yards on the ground to the Titans (after giving up 170 yards to Bell at 5.7 yards per carry in a narrow 18-16 loss to PIT in the playoffs the year before).

Further, while playoff wins are team accomplishments, even if you could twist that into an argument that the playoff wins are due to the difference between Smith and Mahomes, which is mostly not true, it would still only show that Mahomes is better than Smith, a point nobody is debating. It does not demonstrate that Mahomes is better than Herbert.

And are you kidding with the question about how Herbert was better than Mahomes in 2021 other than in TDs? I have already pointed out that Herbert was better than Mahomes in passing yards, TDs and QBR. In addition, Herbert was also better than Mahomes in total completions, YPA, passing yards per game (obviously), air yards per completion (by a full yard per completion over Mahomes), total completed air yards (by 487 yards), lowest bad throw percentage (by 4.2%), on target percentage (by 2.7%), and fewest turnovers (Mahomes fumbled 9 times, but was lucky and only lost 4 versus Herbert's only "fumble" being that obvious BS call on the incomplete pass against WAS that traveled 20 yards down the field into the end zone that was called a "fumble"--so basically Herbert was second in passing attempts and did not fumble the ball at all last season versus Mahomes fumbling at a rate of greater than half a fumble per game).

Ranking Herbert over Mahomes, what you have called blind homerism, is completely consistent with Herbert being voted to start over Mahomes in last year's Pro Bowl game as at least some of those voting are doing so on the basis of which QB they think is better. The conclusion that Herbert is better than Mahomes appears to have considerable support among the public at large (i.e., lots that folks that are not "blind homer Chargers fans"). This, of course, is in addition to former head coaches like Jimmy Johnson stating that he would select Herbert over anyone in the entire league in a hypothetical draft.

Moreover, this entire thread has been about positional rankings for the 2022 season in the AFCW, which has not happened yet. It is entirely about the future. So you are in the wrong thread if you do not want anyone talking about the future.

As I have demonstrated above, Herbert has already been better than Mahomes in a multitude of statistical categories. Accordingly, he was already better than Mahomes was in 2021. Add to that that Herbert is more physically gifted and intelligent than Mahomes (higher ceiling); that Herbert is ascending and Mahomes is not; and that Herbert is getting to play a second season in the same offensive system for the first time ever in either college or the NFL while Mahomes has lost his most dangerous receiving weapon, and it really is not too difficult to project which QB should be better in 2022. The clear answer is Herbert.

[Guest]

I guess your definition of rear view mirror in football terms is much different than mine. Mahomes has been a starting quarterback for four years; Herbert for two. We're not talking about Mahomes being past his prime. What he's accomplished in his young career is still very relevant when comparing him to any quarterback. Much more so relevant than saying, "Herbert is better because I say so," and "Mahomes wouldn't have taken the Jets to the playoffs last year." As if Herbert would have taken the Jets to the playoffs last year. LOL.

Ugh...fanboys of quarterbacks say some ridiculous stuff. I love Herbert because he plays for the Chargers and is as much of an outstanding person as he is a quarterback. But you and Chain...never mind. LOL.

You are delusional if you think Mahomes' 2018 season has any relevance to what we might reasonably expect from him in 2022. I have already explained why that season is an outlier that is very unlikely to be duplicated.

Further, Herbert is not better because I or dmac_bolt say so. He is better because approximately 11+ different statistical categories from 2021 say he is better; because he is more physically gifted than Mahomes; because he is ascending and Mahomes is not; and because he is getting to experience continuity while Mahomes is being forced into what for all the world looks like a major negative change with the departure of Hill.

Herbert was already better than Mahomes was last year. Based upon what we know now, Herbert should be even better in 2022 than he was in 2021. I do not see Mahomes being better than he was last year without Hill, who was a big play machine for KC that also created opportunities for other receivers by virtue of his presence on the field. Mahomes now has good, but not great WRs and RBs. His TE is on the back side of his career.

All of this suggests that Herbert will be the better player in 2022 and will be so by an even greater margin than was the case in 2021.

[powderblueboy]

Tyrod was not throwing him the ball in KC where he had 40-519, 52-673 and 37-421with 8TDs in three seasons there. Hoping Palmer can top those this season.

He was the #2 WR in KC but yes he was injured often. I always thought he underachieved and don't consider him a top WR in the league. He has his moments. In 2020 Hardman and Demarcus Robinson had more receptions than he did...... But again he missed six games.

His two best seasons were his his first two in Buffalo and season two he had his only 1000 yard season..... With Tyrod.
His rookie season he had Kyle Orton as his QB.

He was essentially the 3rd target, much like Guyton.

50 + catches and providing another deep threat is a good season when Hill/Kelce get most of the targets.
In 2018 he played in only 10 games....that would project out to 60 + catches.

Hardman & Robinson have fortunately not provided what Watkins gave the Chiefs his first two years there.
Chief's defense had steadily improved since 2018 to offset their less dynamic offense.

If Everett or Palmer get 50 + catches this upcoming year, with Williams/Allen as the primary guys, they'd have mediocre years?
Hill & a prime Kelce were a clearly better combo.

I would guess one injury too many in 2020 for Watkins. No, he was never worth what it cost Buffalo to move up.