Dolphins @ Chargers Pregame Thread (Wk 14)

[21&500]

I look at it like this we are fans but some fans are 2/3rds critics and 1/3 fans in how they present in posts. To me the time to be a critic is between games and the off-season and on game day it's time to root for the team I'm emotionally invested in. If your a believer in the collective unconscious, all the negative works against the team while they are playing. So sending positive mojo to the team on GameDay matters in my opinion and I like to think I have some inside knowledge on this as I benefited from allot of good positive mojo from many of you when I was fighting cancer. That said we all have the right to be both fans and critics but I think it crosses a line if you root against the team because you want the coach GM or a coordinator fired.

Love it.
Time and place.

Not preaching to others, but this makes sense to me, for me.

[jamrock]

Critty, he is using what in debate is called "the straw man argument." Legitimate opposition football takes are first distorted or exaggerated. Then the created false narrative is argued against.

Essentially, one has an argument with ones self and they never loose.

I would say there is a massive spitball fight in here. It includes repetition, peddling of irrelevant stats and analytics, both by posters and by quoted pundits !

The search continues for answers and football substance.

We are often outmanned and outcoached.

[Kellyb72601]

Can you explain why you believe Staley has a great football mind? I'm kind of lost. What I see is that he's young, inexperienced, makes plenty of in game mistakes. We're not part of the practices, film room so we don't know what goes on there in terms of prep for specific teams, etc. Sure we lead the NFL in injuries but there have been head scratches in terms of specific game strategy.

He's really been coaching his ass off lately people just don't realize it because they think the guys playing are actually serviceable NFL players. The defense being trotted out there the past few weeks has the worst personnel in the NFL and it's not even close. Not a single player other than James & Mack would start for 90% of other NFL teams, that's how bad they are. They're not only starting guys from their practice squad but from other teams practice squads. Staleys been scheming his ass off trying to get stops and they've actually given the offense a chance every week. He's also very smart - I'd put his IQ against any other coach in the NFL. He's also a frigging psychopath who when he wants to get something done literally doesn't give a damn. He had cancer in his early 20's & I think that's made him tough as nails. There's a lot more going on in his head then meets the eye. His approach to winning football games is a lot of game theory & agree with it. It's basically the approach Belichik took with Brady for so many years. Force teams to play small ball & bet you can play small ball better than they can. The problem is the lack of talent is so bad right now not only do they give up runs but they can't stop giving up explosives and can't get off the field on 3rd down. The only thing I can really fault him with is hiring Joe Lombardi as OC.

[QSmokey]

We are often outmanned and out coached.

Pretty easy for many of us to see. Pollyannas, like Master Wu, he of the the dime store philosophy, just choose to look the other way. And he never "looses" any of his arguments, either.

[QSmokey]

Qsmokey, I think you missed a couple of points, I think there is room to be a critic both during the season and in the off-season. I know having a positive mental aspect while fighting disease is important but that is different then positive mojo prayer delivered from other people. In the case of the Chargers that's us fans rooting for the team. Every year in two of three games a year you will see a GameDay thread that someone posts for the defense to get an intercept and shortly after that interception happens. Sometimes it happens the other way and some posts this is when we turn it over, and it happens... I think these things are connected I think positive vibes from the masses help the team in game and negative vibes in game hurt the team. That's what I'm saying. I have never questioned your fanhood except after the Raiders signed John Perrella... And I don't now, some of these guys might but your just being a critic in my opinion.

I'm more than happy you've overcome cancer, Jon. I added my prayers to those who hoped for a happy outcome. I think that *you* are important enough to that for; the Chargers, not so much. And I don't subscribe to the theory that 'positive mental energy' contributes to an interception by the defense any more than 'negative mental energy' contributes to the a turnover by the offense. Only because the Chargers are just not that important in the grand scheme of things.

As for being a critic, this I am. The team sucks, so I criticize. There has not been ONE, SINGLE game this year when the team has shown up for 60 minutes. There has been ZERO improvement from week to week. And the situation has gotten worse, not better. Changes, BIG changes, are necessary, IN MY OPINION. Others can choose to look the other way, or hope that things will get better. More power to the Pollyannas.

[jamrock]

He's really been coaching his ass off lately people just don't realize it because they think the guys playing are actually serviceable NFL players. The defense being trotted out there the past few weeks has the worst personnel in the NFL and it's not even close. Not a single player other than James & Mack would start for 90% of other NFL teams, that's how bad they are. They're not only starting guys from their practice squad but from other teams practice squads. Staleys been scheming his ass off trying to get stops and they've actually given the offense a chance every week. He's also very smart - I'd put his IQ against any other coach in the NFL. He's also a frigging psychopath who when he wants to get something done literally doesn't give a damn. He had cancer in his early 20's & I think that's made him tough as nails. There's a lot more going on in his head then meets the eye. His approach to winning football games is a lot of game theory & agree with it. It's basically the approach Belichik took with Brady for so many years. Force teams to play small ball & bet you can play small ball better than they can. The problem is the lack of talent is so bad right now not only do they give up runs but they can't stop giving up explosives and can't get off the field on 3rd down. The only thing I can really fault him with is hiring Joe Lombardi as OC.

That's a vast over statement and also ignores the fact that the injury bug didn't hit the defense until the mid point of the season so was he not "coaching his ass off" prior to that?

Shit, guys we let go are starting for other teams so if what you're saying has even a grain of truth its his own damn fault. How smart is that?

I'm starting to think the guy can't judge or maximize personnel. Vato was odd man out at CB and he's easily been our best cover corner this season. And don't get me started on JC Jackson

[wu-dai clan]

So what is actually happening out here on this board, and elsewhere re Charger fans. Overwhelming negativity.

A true fan deals with...the truth.

Only a foolish chump would try to say something along the lines of "not one false word, or I question your fandom."

Something quite different than that is the case here.

[Critty]

Critty, he is using what in debate is called "the straw man argument." Legitimate opposition football takes are first distorted or exaggerated. Then the created false narrative is argued against.

Essentially, one has an argument with ones self and they never loose.

I would say there is a massive spitball fight in here. It includes repetition, peddling of irrelevant stats and analytics, both by posters and by quoted pundits !

The search continues for answers and football substance.

Only 1 Team/Fans is ever really happy at end of year.
The rest go home without the Trophy. If all was equal each team would win 1SB every 32 years and then wait another 3 decades for another 1.

So why do certain franchises win so much. IMO, Very often it's because they have a top 3 QB.

A few teams.with great defenses and run game and competent QBs have had success, but not as often as those teams who have top 3 QBs do. Like most sports, having some of the best players in the game on your team really improves chances for success. You can't turn a good QB into Montana or a good point guard into Magic Johnson. You can only try to get the most out of the talent you have.

Herbert could go his whole career and never make Superbowl if he cant beat Burrow, Mahomes or Allen.
They are all better than him.

IMO if Chargers had Burrow they would win more games than with Herbert. I also don't believe Bengals make SB last year with Herbert at QB. Burrow is 3-0 vs Mahomes.

You can't turn any kicker into Justin Tucker. But you could trade two 1st Rd picks to Ravens and acquire him if they were willing to accept the deal.

I absolutely loved the trade for Mack.
A huge reason I am a Staley fan. He made that trade happen.

These are my answers to how Championships happen.
Much much much more about the players than the coaches. It's why Belicheat teams are now average. Even the so called genius goat HC is not turning Mack Jones into a poor mans Tom Brady. Belichek will never make it to SB again, unless he steels/signs away Burrow from the cheapo Bengals.

[wu-dai clan]

That's a vast over statement and also ignores the fact that the injury bug didn't hit the defense until the mid point of the season so was he not "coaching his ass off" prior to that?

Shit, guys we let go are starting for other teams so if what you're saying has even a grain of truth its his own damn fault. How smart is that?

I'm starting to think the guy can't judge or maximize personnel. Vato was odd man out at CB and he's easily been our best cover corner this season. And don't get me started on JC Jackson

New coaches always want their guys. There are nuanced reasons regarding skill sets and scheme fit. Mack instead of Uchenna was a business decision. Pete Carroll runs a defense far removed from the Fangio Tree.

I will continue to study, as I did initially, in trying to get a feel for StaleyD concepts. So far none of you like the answers I have attempted to provide.

[Boltgang74]

Only 1 Team/Fans is ever really happy at end of year.
The rest go home without the Trophy. If all was equal each team would win 1SB every 32 years and then wait another 3 decades for another 1.

So why do certain franchises win so much. IMO, Very often it's because they have a top 3 QB.

A few teams.with great defenses and run game and competent QBs have had success, but not as often as those teams who have top 3 QBs do. Like most sports, having some of the best players in the game on your team really improves chances for success. You can't turn a good QB into Montana or a good point guard into Magic Johnson. You can only try to get the most out of the talent you have.

Herbert could go his whole career and never make Superbowl if he cant beat Burrow, Mahomes or Allen.
They are all better than him.

IMO if Chargers had Burrow they would win more games than with Herbert. I also don't believe Bengals make SB last year with Herbert at QB. Burrow is 3-0 vs Mahomes.

You can't turn any kicker into Justin Tucker. But you could trade two 1st Rd picks to Ravens and acquire him if they were willing to accept the deal.

I absolutely loved the trade for Mack.
A huge reason I am a Staley fan. He made that trade happen.

These are my answers to how Championships happen.
Much much much more about the players than the coaches. It's why Belicheat teams are now average. Even the so called genius goat HC is not turning Mack Jones into a poor mans Tom Brady. Belichek will never make it to SB again, unless he steels/signs away Burrow from the cheapo Bengals.

Wrong.Herbert's defense goes against those other QBs.What are those guys' defense rated compared to Staleys garbage, bottom dweller D?Also those guys have a better HC,and OC let alone better ran organization,yes even the Bengals which says volumes about the SpAnus genius family.We got the stud QB,problem is these lame asses running the show are utterly clueless on how to run a winning football team.

[wu-dai clan]

Oh my goodness.
He saw it !

[Kellyb72601]

That's a vast over statement and also ignores the fact that the injury bug didn't hit the defense until the mid point of the season so was he not "coaching his ass off" prior to that?

Shit, guys we let go are starting for other teams so if what you're saying has even a grain of truth its his own damn fault. How smart is that?

I'm starting to think the guy can't judge or maximize personnel. Vato was odd man out at CB and he's easily been our best cover corner this season. And don't get me started on JC Jackson

It's not an overstatement at all and it's not just my observation you can verify it with PFF grades. Other than James & Mack, Bryce Callahan is the only other above average player on this defense & he doesn't start. Vato is halfway decent but wouldn't start for most teams. I agree it was a big mistake letting Kyzir White go. They probably thought a healthy Murray could fill that role. They basically exchanged Justin Jones for Joseph-Day & Austin Johnson so that's a wash. Linebackers are really really bad, defensive tackle has been completely decimated by injury, Van Noy quit giving a shit about football 2 years ago, Asante Samuel Jr. struggles to cover anybody and is absolutely hopeless trying to tackle anybody, & Adderly has the talent but can't put it together mentally. The injury bug started hitting the defense in training camp when JC Jackson had ankle surgery. Bosa was lost in game 3. Recall they looked pretty good the first couple of games.