2023 Official Roster Build Thread - The Initial 53 / Practice Squad

[chargeroo]

I agree with Dmac regarding Derwin but I also agree that we won't be able to keep all of our highest salaries players after this year. In fact, I'm surprised they were able to keep most of them this year. TT has gone "all in" this year. Rebuilding will begin at the season's end.

[CanadianBoltFan]

I disagree with you too. what do you define as "of late"? He had a pro bowl season last year after signing his contract. sorry it didn't quite reach whatever superhero plateau you and Velo expected, but league members voted and decided it was elite.

Fact: he had a better QB Rating Against than Fitzpatrick in 2022
Fact: he had more tackles, TFL, Sacks, QB and FF Hurries than Fitzpatrick in 2022

I posted a highlight video of game-changing plays after someone said he never made a game-changing play. Velo seems to imply his non-FS contributions have less value, but in truth they have more value. FS's are usually under-drafted and underpaid because they are lower value, like LBs. DJ changes the value equation by NOT being just another FS, the exact inverse. He can come up and play edge. he can play LB. he has played CB. he can play every position on the defense besides IDL, yet he's worth less than a FS that can only play deep centerfield?

ok - so you've analyzed all of the safeties. tell us - how did you measure every safety's performance in 2022 so that we might understand your method at least? Lay it out right here, maybe you're right?

All I got from Velo so far is that he blew one play against Kelce. he's still pissed about it. I think he wants Guyton to play SS but haven't confirmed it yet.

Rated 10th for 2022 based on this ranking. Derwin is not the only good safety out there.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2022-safety-rankings

I never said Derwin isnt a great player, though I do think the hype is on overkill sometimes.

Pro sports is a bottom line business, fact is Chargers are paying a shit ton of money for James, Mack, Bosa to lead an elite defense that constantly under performs, not only in defense rankings always at bottom but in big moments in big games. We have a great young QB branded as a QB who doesnt win because this defense cant stop shit when it counts, and yes some of that is Kelce toying with Derwin.

I don't think the conversation in this thread is really about saying that the high paid Chargers like James and Bosa are not good players. To me more about roster construction....how you are paying 43% of your cap to about 6 guys (not including Herbert) and are you getting bang for those big bucks?

The important RESULTS say otherwise. Remove the label of the Chargers being the biggest under achiever in the NFL and win a single playoff game and then maybe we can crown these 5-6 players and justify these cap hits.

[dmac_bolt]

We are top heavy. Per Spotrac for 2023 we have approx 43% of the cap tied up in; Jackson, Mack, Bosa, MW, Linsley, KA, James - that's 7 players. Note that Herbert's not included in this. Don't bother to look at 2024's cap projections - it's NOT pretty. Many of these guys are fairly significant injury risks, from most to least (IMO); Jackson (who may or may not make it back - ever), MW, Bosa, Linsley, KA, James, Mack.

If these guys stay healthy and ball out to their capabilities - it's all good, but I think it's unrealistic to expect that to happen. Most of these guys will miss games at some point (hopefully not a season) and / or have to play through nagging injuries, which will reduce their production. How much time is missed AND how well they play when they're on the field will be the determining factor as far as our season goes.

This is why I'm not a fan of TT's run it back plan - IMO it's simply too risky. Basically all of our eggs are in one basket . . . . . . . . . a couple of sprained ankles, knees or strained hamstrings and we're in trouble.

For fun I added up the same guys for 2024 - they'll take up just over 81% of the cap (without Herbert). No matter how 2023 goes there will be significant changes in 2024.

Per Spottrac below as of now, LAC difference could be total team cap value fluctuated? I got 39%, not 43% but pretty close but look at comparisons. Did you compare other teams? I looked at Top 3 and Top 7 (your criteria) ... look at the Chiefs ... LAC seems right in line with my random team sampling, give or take

CIN is similar to us, they haven't signed Burrow yet so will be in similar situation as LAC next year. We drafted players to replace a couple high-cost cap hits if worst comes to worst, I don't know if they did the same. Chiefs difference is $39M on Mahomes, otherwise they are exactly the same as the rest. Thats what we'll face next year, we need one of the two (edge, WR) to play big and then draft more of the weaker next year (if Tuli doesn't show).

Interesting cap number for BUF at $252M - they are over the cap per Spottrac?

What I take from this - LAC is operating similar to other teams. Its the nature of the game - a couple players on every team emerge (or are signed) and require superstar contracts, they are all "overpaid" when compared to league wide pay rates. The bottom 85% of the roster split half of the team cap, less than 2% of cap each on average. Its all perfectly normal, nothing to report here, everyone can move along ...

image.png

[Lefty2SLO]

Rated 10th for 2022 based on this ranking. Derwin is not the only good safety out there.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2022-safety-rankings

I never said Derwin isnt a great player, though I do think the hype is on overkill sometimes.

Pro sports is a bottom line business, fact is Chargers are paying a shit ton of money for James, Mack, Bosa to lead an elite defense that constantly under performs, not only in defense rankings always at bottom but in big moments in big games. We have a great young QB branded as a QB who doesnt win because this defense cant stop shit when it counts, and yes some of that is Kelce toying with Derwin.

I don't think the conversation in this thread is really about saying that the high paid Chargers like James and Bosa are not good players. To me more about roster construction....how you are paying 43% of your cap to about 6 guys (not including Herbert) and are you getting bang for those big bucks?

The important RESULTS say otherwise. Remove the label of the Chargers being the biggest under achiever in the NFL and win a single playoff game and then maybe we can crown these 5-6 players and justify these cap hits.

This is the point that I think some folks are missing; no-one is saying DJ is not a good / great player. What's concerning is that we're not getting the production in game changing plays expected from the highest paid player at his position in the league. It's not rocket science.

Hopefully that will change in 2023, but if we want that to happen Bosa and Mack BETTER stay healthy and be the pass rush force THEY'RE being paid to be. No-one on the back end of the D will have a good year if we can't put pressure on the QB . . . . . . .

[Topcat]

I don't think the conversation in this thread is really about saying that the high paid Chargers like James and Bosa are not good players. To me more about roster construction....how you are paying 43% of your cap to about 6 guys (not including Herbert) and are you getting bang for those big bucks?

^ This. Derwin and Bosa are very good players. But the question is, are they elite, game-changing players? Maybe with some of the new additions to the team, they approach elite play. We shall see.

[Lefty2SLO]

Per Spottrac below as of now, LAC difference could be total team cap value fluctuated? I got 39%, not 43% but pretty close but look at comparisons. Did you compare other teams? I looked at Top 3 and Top 7 (your criteria) ... look at the Chiefs ... LAC seems right in line with my random team sampling, give or take

CIN is similar to us, they haven't signed Burrow yet so will be in similar situation as LAC next year. We drafted players to replace a couple high-cost cap hits if worst comes to worst, I don't know if they did the same. Chiefs difference is $39M on Mahomes, otherwise they are exactly the same as the rest. Thats what we'll face next year, we need one of the two (edge, WR) to play big and then draft more of the weaker next year (if Tuli doesn't show).

Interesting cap number for BUF at $252M - they are over the cap per Spottrac?

What I take from this - LAC is operating similar to other teams. Its the nature of the game - a couple players on every team emerge (or are signed) and require superstar contracts, they are all "overpaid" when compared to league wide pay rates. The bottom 85% of the roster split half of the team cap, less than 2% of cap each on average. Its all perfectly normal, nothing to report here, everyone can move along ...

image.png

This is a good comparison - I didn't go that far. I'm not surprised that the 'few' take the bulk of the cap from the 'many' - there's not many middle income players left these days. My major concern is not just what our top guys are being paid, but also how fragile, aging and injury prone some of them are. I'm sure other teams have the same issues with their top paid players, but probably not as many as we do. It's definitely a gamble.

Just for fun toggle the 2024 cap on Spotrac - yikes . . . . . . .

[dmac_bolt]

This is a good comparison - I didn't go that far. I'm not surprised that the 'few' take the bulk of the cap from the 'many' - there's not many middle income players left these days. My major concern is not just what our top guys are being paid, but also how fragile, aging and injury prone some of them are. I'm sure other teams have the same issues with their top paid players, but probably not as many as we do. It's definitely a gamble.

Just for fun toggle the 2024 cap on Spotrac - yikes . . . . . . .

2024 is a riddle to be solved next year. I don’t disagree, I’ve seen it. I think QJ solves half of it - I expect KA is odd man out just due to age and greater savings, not necessarily play. If JJ isn’t back to top shutdown corner level, there’s the other half. You know, give or take. If not, its Rd 1 Edge and Mack is probably the casualty.

you DID note that if they all play well this year its all good. Thats fair. Others have not been so generous, you’d have to admit. I like one post that said if players around them play better, maybe they can show their elite abilities. Lol, thats a loud admission it wasnt not their fault, it’s that the rest of the defense flailed and they can’t play 11 positions all by themselves. Just as it wasnt Dan Marino’ s fault to be on crap teams and not win a SB. We all saw how shit our interior D was against the rush last year - They also weren’t very good covering the mid-inside passing either. well guess what, that affects the Strong Safety and his ability to support pass defense. It affects what the DC asks the one elite guy to do. Derwin is a baller, he can cover like a DB and hit like a DE. Other safeties cannot do that.

I don’t have the same problem with Bosa criticism, I expect more from him too. He’s too often been almost there, he has to stop whining about holding and find a way to overcome it. He needs to be professional and not petulant. But Derwin is a different matter entirely, he’s not sub-par, he’s not sub-good, he’s not sub-elite. He is elite and we are lucky to have him. People here just go pffft that he was pro bowl because he missed one play. Thats idiotic, he was literally pro bowl. Pro bowl is elite, period, end of discussion.

[ghost]

Matt makes great points on offensive line the entire program. When he talks about the lineman wanting to run the ball,not pass-set, that's when I knew I had to share. Mentions why Jamaree slipped to sixth round as scouts had concerns over arm length as one of the reasons. Sorry, Tyler.

[Lefty2SLO]

2024 is a riddle to be solved next year. I don’t disagree, I’ve seen it. I think QJ solves half of it - I expect KA is odd man out just due to age and greater savings, not necessarily play. If JJ isn’t back to top shutdown corner level, there’s the other half. You know, give or take. If not, its Rd 1 Edge and Mack is probably the casualty.

you DID note that if they all play well this year its all good. Thats fair. Others have not been so generous, you’d have to admit. I like one post that said if players around them play better, maybe they can show their elite abilities. Lol, thats a loud admission it wasnt not their fault, it’s that the rest of the defense flailed and they can’t play 11 positions all by themselves. Just as it wasnt Dan Marino’ s fault to be on crap teams and not win a SB. We all saw how shit our interior D was against the rush last year - They also weren’t very good covering the mid-inside passing either. well guess what, that affects the Strong Safety and his ability to support pass defense. It affects what the DC asks the one elite guy to do. Derwin is a baller, he can cover like a DB and hit like a DE. Other safeties cannot do that.

I don’t have the same problem with Bosa criticism, I expect more from him too. He’s too often been almost there, he has to stop whining about holding and find a way to overcome it. He needs to be professional and not petulant. But Derwin is a different matter entirely, he’s not sub-par, he’s not sub-good, he’s not sub-elite. He is elite and we are lucky to have him. People here just go pffft that he was pro bowl because he missed one play. Thats idiotic, he was literally pro bowl. Pro bowl is elite, period, end of discussion.

This IS backwards - one of the traits / indicators of a truly elite player is their ability to raise the level of play of others around them, or to free others up to do more because of the attention the elite player draws. Other than Herbert I don't think that happened last year . . . . . . . . as far as DJ's concerned I think our disagreement is a matter of degrees - I'm just expecting more from him than you are - that's OK.

Post season awards are terrific, and I'm sure DJ enjoyed the extra bank, but there's a component of popularity and notoriety that effects the outcome. I prefer to draw my own conclusions . . . . . . .

[SuperCharged]

Damn! UDFA Center Maryland Johan Branch looks beastly.


kf0mwnuqrze5aoywetmi.jpg

[Maniaque 6]

It is a 2023 roster build thread, the way to split the salary cap doesn't matter.
The question is : is it possible to win now ?
What can the FO do for it ?
Changing the FO is not an option.
Solding the farm is not too.
Keep an eye on 2024-25 nevertheless !

[Lefty2SLO]

Damn! UDFA Center Maryland Johan Branch looks beastly.


kf0mwnuqrze5aoywetmi.jpg

Hopefully he plays like Tarzan . . . . . . . . not Jane