2023 Official Roster Build Thread - The Initial 53 / Practice Squad

[Boltjolt]

I know you don't understand, and that is why you are frustrated. The difference between Derwin and Guyton is $18 million dollars.

Derwin earns an average of $19.1 mil per year on a five year contract.

Guyton is getting paid less that $1 mil on a 1 year contract.

My issue with Derwin is that he is not playing up to his $19 mil per year contract. The value isn't there.

Guyton, on the other hand, is a good value signing, given his past production, his connection with Herbert, and his contributions as a special teams player.

It's about value. When you are dealing with the constraints of a salary cap, in order to be successful you have to make sure you are getting value of the players you are paying, if you have highly paid players who aren't performing commensurate to their contract, it sucks the life blood out of a team.

I like Derwin. I think he's a good player. But his performance on the field has not been worth $19 mil per year since he signed his new contract. And his bloated salary inhibits the team from spending money to upgrade other areas that need it.

You dont quite understand either. His cap hit is 9.1 million this year. (8.1 mil last year)

FAR from the top on this team and is less than Micheal Davis cap hit(9.4.mil). Derwin's ave per year may be 19.1 but he isn't getting that much every year.

2024(19.8 mil),2025(23.8 mil) and 2026(24.6 mil) he will be in that "inhibits the team from spending money to upgrade"......
but it isn't this year.

You need to point elsewhere for that. There are 8 others with a higher cap hit.
At least the 3rd time I've mentioned this.

[dmac_bolt]

This IS backwards - one of the traits / indicators of a truly elite player is their ability to raise the level of play of others around them, or to free others up to do more because of the attention the elite player draws. Other than Herbert I don't think that happened last year . . . . . . . . as far as DJ's concerned I think our disagreement is a matter of degrees - I'm just expecting more from him than you are - that's OK.

Post season awards are terrific, and I'm sure DJ enjoyed the extra bank, but there's a component of popularity and notoriety that affects the outcome. I prefer to draw my own conclusions . . . . . . .

Disagree - It’s not backwards. If 10 guys suck, 1 superstar can’t save a defense. Our defense interior was a swinging porch door. We’ve seen it with our own eyes in every sport since we started watching sports. One player can’t fix a bad team. It’s a universal law of physics. Especially in football, perhaps the easiest of all sports to scheme out one player if the rest can’t hold up their end.

How many shit Padre teams did Tony Gwynn play on? Did Tony fail to lift the play of the rest of those teams? Is it Tony’s fault they didn’t win a single WS even though he was a top 20 hitter in the 100+ year history of small ball, probably top 5 in modern era?

[dmac_bolt]

Rated 10th for 2022 based on this ranking. Derwin is not the only good safety out there.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2022-safety-rankings

I never said Derwin isnt a great player, though I do think the hype is on overkill sometimes.

Pro sports is a bottom line business, fact is Chargers are paying a shit ton of money for James, Mack, Bosa to lead an elite defense that constantly under performs, not only in defense rankings always at bottom but in big moments in big games. We have a great young QB branded as a QB who doesnt win because this defense cant stop shit when it counts, and yes some of that is Kelce toying with Derwin.

I don't think the conversation in this thread is really about saying that the high paid Chargers like James and Bosa are not good players. To me more about roster construction....how you are paying 43% of your cap to about 6 guys (not including Herbert) and are you getting bang for those big bucks?

The important RESULTS say otherwise. Remove the label of the Chargers being the biggest under achiever in the NFL and win a single playoff game and then maybe we can crown these 5-6 players and justify these cap hits.

Ranked #1 per these experts. PFF is the mirror folks use to see their own reflection - when they agree its great, when they don’t its shit

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/b...-nfl-rankings/

How are the Chargers the biggest underachievers? You know about all of the teams that failed to qualify for the playoffs, right? Thats just disappointment magnified to the absurd.

I already posted the data proving that paying 40% to the top 7 players is entirely normal in today’s NFL (Chargers top 7 is 39% per Spottrac today but we can call it 43% - we get the same answer), you can go re-read that data if you missed it. That is the life of rosters in all pro sports (that have revenue to pay, at least), and it has been since players earned the right to leave teams and seek their worth on the open market.

The aggregate evaluation of all league coaches and players said he was a pro bowl starter - thats top 2 in the AFC. You think they don’t know who is good, or they just love his personality so much they dissed the actual better Safeties?

he is charismatic, I’ll give him that.

Edit - Bosa didn’t play last year so that fucks up your triad notably. We can bitch about it, it was what it was. Mack without a second elite edge was schemed out most of the season.

which goes back to Lefty’s lift all boats theory. If you only have a couple great players, they CAN be schemed. And of course no player makes EVERY play, Babe Ruth didn’t even bat .400, but we know that too.

you guys are just way to harsh on Mr James. He’s a great guy, a team leader, an elite Safety that can do things normal Safeties cannot do.

[Lefty2SLO]

Ranked #1 per these experts. PFF is the mirror folks use to see their own reflection - when they agree its great, when they don’t its shit

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/b...-nfl-rankings/

How are the Chargers the biggest underachievers? You know about all of the teams that failed to qualify for the playoffs, right? Thats just disappointment magnified to the absurd.

I already posted the data proving that paying 40% to the top 7 players is entirely normal in today’s NFL (Chargers top 7 is 39% per Spottrac today but we can call it 43% - we get the same answer), you can go re-read that data if you missed it. That is the life of rosters in all pro sports (that have revenue to pay, at least), and it has been since players earned the right to leave teams and seek their worth on the open market.

The aggregate evaluation of all league coaches and players said he was a pro bowl starter - thats top 2 in the AFC. You think they don’t know who is good, or they just love his personality so much they dissed the actual better Safeties?

he is charismatic, I’ll give him that.

Edit - Bosa didn’t play last year so that fucks up your triad notably. We can bitch about it, it was what it was. Mack without a second elite edge was schemed out most of the season.

which goes back to Lefty’s lift all boats theory. If you only have a couple great players, they CAN be schemed. And of course no player makes EVERY play, Babe Ruth didn’t even bat .400, but we know that too.

you guys are just way to harsh on Mr James. He’s a great guy, a team leader, an elite Safety that can do things normal Safeties cannot do.

As I said . . . . . . . we disagree. I'm OK with that

[wu-dai clan]

Derwin's intrinsic value to the Chargers is not measured in stats or dollars.

The arguments are specious, frivolous and an embarassment to the National Football League.

So says Jackie Chiles.

I rest my case.

You will pay treble punitive damages and attorneys fees.

This will cost you dearly.

[Lefty2SLO]

Derwin's intrinsic value to the Chargers is not measured in stats or dollars.

The arguments are specious, frivolous and an embarassment to the National Football League.

So says Jackie Chiles.

I rest my case.

You will pay treble punitive damages and attorneys fees.

This will cost you dearly.

Trevor Lawrence says hello . . . . . . . . he loves Derwin

[dmac_bolt]

Trevor Lawrence says hello . . . . . . . . he loves Derwin

Trevor Lawrence loves Ja’Sir Taylor.

Wud, as always, knows.

[Topcat]

Disagree - It’s not backwards. If 10 guys suck, 1 superstar can’t save a defense. Our defense interior was a swinging porch door. We’ve seen it with our own eyes in every sport since we started watching sports. One player can’t fix a bad team. It’s a universal law of physics. Especially in football, perhaps the easiest of all sports to scheme out one player if the rest can’t hold up their end.

How many shit Padre teams did Tony Gwynn play on? Did Tony fail to lift the play of the rest of those teams? Is it Tony’s fault they didn’t win a single WS even though he was a top 20 hitter in the 100+ year history of small ball, probably top 5 in modern era?

This is actually a good point...I wondered in another post if Derwin's play, along with our total D, including our run-stopping D, will improve with the additions of Kendricks. Henley and Tuli...hopeful it will...

[Boltjolt]

Derwin's intrinsic value to the Chargers is not measured in stats or dollars.

The arguments are specious, frivolous and an embarassment to the National Football League.

So says Jackie Chiles.

I rest my case.

You will pay treble punitive damages and attorneys fees.

This will cost you dearly.

[Ghost of Quacksaw]

This is actually a good point...I wondered in another post if Derwin's play, along with our total D, including our run-stopping D, will improve with the additions of Kendricks. Henley and Tuli...hopeful it will...

Scott Matlock was schemed against for the entirely of his final season at Boise State, and it absolutely minimized his stats. He won't be getting schemed against in the NFLat *all*, so I think Matlock is likely to outproduce your typical Day 3 draft pick.

[Boltnut]

Derwin James' value is found in his versatility. No other DC asks any of their defensive players to do what Staley requires of Derwin.

DJ plays Money... he plays Star... he plays in the box, at nickel, at FS... he pass rushes.
None of the afore mentioned safeties can do all that at the level that DJ can. Period.

There are maybe a hand full of defenses that have a defensive player that mean more to their defense than Derwin.

[Boltnut]

Trevor Lawrence says hello . . . . . . . . he loves Derwin

And Asante Samuel says hello right back... he loves Trevor.