2023 Official Roster Build Thread - The Initial 53 / Practice Squad

[Boltjolt]

Case in point Tyler Huntley, the Raven's BACK UP qb made the Pro Bowl last year.

Yes, that was embarrassing for the NFL.

[dmac_bolt]

I'm not a fan of the 1970s Steelers. I'm not here to defend Swann and Stallworth. I don't care about either of one of them. But I think saying today's athletes are more dedicated is false. Lance Alworth would have focused on football all year round and had the best trainers working with him during his prime if he got paid like Keenan Allen and there were all of today's luxuries available to the players in the 1960s and 1970s. In addition to that, Alworth not having to worry about getting his head ripped off while going across the middle in today's era with these rules? Forget it. And while it's true that many players were "boozing and smoking" during the offseasons in the 1960s and 1970s, many of today's athletes are doing a lot worse during their time off.

lol I'm not a fan either and I didn't bring up their WRs, i just happen by chance to agree.

And I didnt say they are more dedicated, you did. you just said it again. You said KA has the best trainers and meal plans and masseuse and barometric chambers and whatever, he works longer and harder at being an elite football player, Poor Bambi had to spend his spring and summer foraging in the forest for food and did not have such luxury time or resources to apply to football. i paraphrase of course.

That is all concrete testimony that KA has applied greater dedication and effort to football. That doesnt mean Bambi is a bad deer, who doesn't love Bambi, for god's sakes. It means today's athletes train harder, train year round, apply cutting edge science to their effforts, have improved diets, etc., and all of that is MORE dedication than what players did 40 and 50 years ago. so it is likley that some modern stats are not just rules changes and trends but actually the best athletes working harder and longer and smarter than those of yore. thats just fact.

you talk about dedication as an emotional feeling, they are "dedicated". I talk about it in actual concrete actions and efforts. money where their mouth is, if you will. Anyone can claim "dedication", today's athletes SHOW more dedication thru their work.

Rules changes are definitely a contributor though, the game is just different. Teams did not seek 300 yard passing per game, WRs did not get the chances they do now. Rules allowed defenders to be much more obstructive and inflict much more injury. That is why I agree we can't compare players from different eras directly by using just stat math. I agree on that.

in that regard, Bambi >> KA. Bambi >> anyone, in my opinion.

[madcaplafs]

Keenan Allen is the best route runner in the NFL. Great hands Open at some point every down.

Underrated to a flaw. Reminds me of Charlie Joiner, with an added element of physicality

[chargeroo]

Underrated to a flaw. Reminds me of Charlie Joiner, with an added element of physicality

I too have often thought about Charlie as I watch KA. Charlie was a bit faster than KA but they both run precise routes and as Jim said, they get open.

[dmac_bolt]

I too have often thought about Charlie as I watch KA. Charlie was a bit faster than KA but they both run precise routes and as Jim said, they get open.

KA in his prime had a much better Step 1-3 to create instant separation. thats also why he has thrived under 15 yards. He doesnt have the top speed, so give a DB enough time and eventually he'll catch up with KA.

Charlie was good, but in this aspect the early KA was utterly uncoverable. KA is still good, not quite what he was earlier.

[Ghost of Quacksaw]

Teams did not seek 300 yard passing per game, WRs did not get the chances they do now.

Leading up to the Fouts Era, a 300 yard game for a QB was a sign of greatness.

Now? Now when your QB *doesn't* get 300 yards, it's at least a bit of a disappointment. Like, we somehow believe that a good QB *should* throw for 300 pretty much every game.

Entirely different mindset now.

BTW... 300 yards throwing per game X 17 games = 5100 yards/season.

[wu-dai clan]

I too have often thought about Charlie as I watch KA. Charlie was a bit faster than KA but they both run precise routes and as Jim said, they get open.

'Roo, madcaps, sonora too.
I remember Charlie Joiner being surprisingly tough and gritty.
Derius Davis has some of that in him too.

[FoutsFan]

One thing about Joiner that people need to remember is that he was HOF for sure. When he retired he was THE all time leader in receptions. Not one of the top or in the top 20, he was #1. That makes a difference.

[dmac_bolt]

One thing about Joiner that people need to remember is that he was HOF for sure. When he retired he was THE all time leader in receptions. Not one of the top or in the top 20, he was #1. That makes a difference.

Yup - top all time in your time outta be HOF. I don’t remember if he was playing in 12 game seasons, but he played a lot of 14 game seasons for sure too.

[DerwinBosa]

I think the Hall of Fame Voting has a few flaws these days
1) the coverage of the NFL is 24/7/365. Highlight shows, pre game shows ,post game shows, ESPN, NFLNetwork, Sirius. These players get talked about ad nauseum and highlights are discussed. All the talk can over-value players

2) A player is presented at the final vote. Like the beat writer from the Colts did Peyton Manning. He said, Peyton Manning and that was it. Other guys have powerpoints and speeches to persuade the otehr voters in teh room. I say 'do you got gosh darn job and learn about the players. Also Pro Bowls are included - thats stupid. Who cares ifyou make the Pro Bowl - half the league makes the pro bowl these days with players opting out.

3) Minimum number of players to get in is 4. What if 4 aren't worthy - somebody is getting in

I know the Halls of Fame are different and the LPGA can operate differently but its all performance based. You get the points, you are in. You don't, you aren't. I like it. I get the NFL can;t do it but I like

I agree. Making All-Pro definitely is more of an accomplishment. I would think the voters for the Pro Football Hall of Fame would do their research on which Pro Bowlers were legit.But who knows if the voters even look into whether or not a player's Pro Bowl appearance in 2015, 2017, or whatever year he made it was because he actually earned it?

Peter King is a Pro Football Hall of Fame voter. I give him credit for making his votes public each year, but by doing so he's proven he shouldn't be one of the people determining which players should get into Canton. He's clueless.

[dmac_bolt]

I agree. Making All-Pro definitely is more of an accomplishment. I would think the voters for the Pro Football Hall of Fame would do their research on which Pro Bowlers were legit.But who knows if the voters even look into whether or not a player's Pro Bowl appearance in 2015, 2017, or whatever year he made it was because he actually earned it?

Peter King is a Pro Football Hall of Fame voter. I give him credit for making his votes public each year, but by doing so he's proven he shouldn't be one of the people determining which players should get into Canton. He's clueless.

Half the league doesn’t make Pro Bowls, it is something but hardly can stand anlone … and whats with the Peyton Manning example? What, is Peyton not HOF credible? For fuck’s sake, he was obvious first ballot worthy imo,. I’m already so bored with HOF discussion, why am I even posting about it? How do i get out of here? ARRRGGGHHH!

Peter King is a douche and not a very smart one.

[DerwinBosa]

lol I'm not a fan either and I didn't bring up their WRs, i just happen by chance to agree.

And I didnt say they are more dedicated, you did. you just said it again. You said KA has the best trainers and meal plans and masseuse and barometric chambers and whatever, he works longer and harder at being an elite football player, Poor Bambi had to spend his spring and summer foraging in the forest for food and did not have such luxury time or resources to apply to football. i paraphrase of course.

That is all concrete testimony that KA has applied greater dedication and effort to football. That doesnt mean Bambi is a bad deer, who doesn't love Bambi, for god's sakes. It means today's athletes train harder, train year round, apply cutting edge science to their effforts, have improved diets, etc., and all of that is MORE dedication than what players did 40 and 50 years ago. so it is likley that some modern stats are not just rules changes and trends but actually the best athletes working harder and longer and smarter than those of yore. thats just fact.

you talk about dedication as an emotional feeling, they are "dedicated". I talk about it in actual concrete actions and efforts. money where their mouth is, if you will. Anyone can claim "dedication", today's athletes SHOW more dedication thru their work.

Rules changes are definitely a contributor though, the game is just different. Teams did not seek 300 yard passing per game, WRs did not get the chances they do now. Rules allowed defenders to be much more obstructive and inflict much more injury. That is why I agree we can't compare players from different eras directly by using just stat math. I agree on that.

in that regard, Bambi >> KA. Bambi >> anyone, in my opinion.

I think you misinterpreted what I meant. If Keenan Allen had been born in 1947 and played for the Chargers from 1968 through 1979, he wouldn't have had the opportunity to train like he does now. He may very well have smoked a ton of cigarettes and drank lots of beer during the offseason. If Lance Alworth, Paul Warfield, and the other great receivers of that era had the knowledge, money, and same opportunities to train the way today's athletes do, they certainly would have. Therefore, you would see a lot of them displaying similar examples of incredible athleticism, such as Odell Beckham's one-handed catch that fantasy football nerds gush over. With that in mind I think it's unfair to say something like, "I would take Malcom Floyd over John Stallworth." The players of the past shouldn't be looked down upon because they didn't do what today athletes do. They simply weren't able to.

Does that mean I think every single wide receiver from the 1960s and 1970s was better than those from this century? Of course not. Leaving biases out of it, if Lynn Swann trained the exact same way Marvin Harrison did, I would choose Harrison over Swann without any hesitation.

This type of argument will take place 30 years from now, 60 years from now, and 90 years from now. In 2053 there may be a quarterback playing for the Chargers who throws for 8,747 yards and 68 touchdowns in a 19-game season. He may clinch a playoff berth by throwing a last-second scoring strike from the Chargers' 20-yard-line to a 6-8, 260 pound wide receiver standing five yards into the end zone. Cris Collinsworth's 35-year-old grandson may say, "Woooooow! That's UNBELIEVABLE! Now here's a guy that knows how to sling it!" And you may be on this forum soiling your diaper (if they even have those anymore) while fighting against the youngsters saying this quarterback is ten times better than Justin Herbert ever was.