Former OC Kellen Moore - Discussion

[charger1_sj]

Staley thinks Murray, Neimann, Ogbongbemiga, Tranquill or the new guy(s) can improve in his D scheme with coaching.

Tranquill is a FA. The other two have hardly stood out. For a D that is supposed to be running a 3/4 system, we are weak at LB.

[sonorajim]

Tranquill is a FA. The other two have hardly stood out. For a D that is supposed to be running a 3/4 system, we are weak at LB.

We need to re-sign DT or Reeder who played well for Staley's Rams D or draft LB.

[powderblueboy]

Respected by who? Not Synder. Not the some of the players. The fans, mabe? The press? The reports I've read don't
paint such a rosy picture for Norv in Washington.

Washington went 8 - 3 the final 11 games of that season with Schottenheimer.

Reading between the lines there - hell yes, respected by the team .... fuck Daniel Spider.
If Schottenheimer was a boot licker, he would have gained that owners 'respect' for awhile.

Are we talking about the same head coach?

[charger1_sj]

Washington went 8 - 3 the final 11 games of that season with Schottenheimer.

Reading between the lines there - hell yes, respected by the team .... fuck Daniel Spider.
If Schottenheimer was a boot licker, he would have gained that owners 'respect' for awhile.

Are we talking about the same head coach?

I was talking about Norv in Washington, not Marty.

[Lefty2SLO]

Staley thinks Murray, Neimann, Ogbongbemiga, Tranquill or the new guy(s) can improve in his D scheme with coaching.

Haven't all those guys already has 2 full seasons of Staley's genius coaching? I have hopes the offense will return to form under Moore, but I'm nowhere near as bullish on the defense.

[blueman]

Haven't all those guys already has 2 full seasons of Staley's genius coaching? I have hopes the offense will return to form under Moore, but I'm nowhere near as bullish on the defense.

Still don’t think we have the premium talent we need to optimize Staley’s D schemes, and he doesn’t seem to be able to adjust all that well to that. Maybe no one could.

[Lefty2SLO]

Still don’t think we have the premium talent we need to optimize Staley’s D schemes, and he doesn’t seem to be able to adjust all that well to that. Maybe no one could.

In this day and age with the cap it's highly unlikely that you'll have many premium or elite players on any given team, since they eat up too much cap space. Coaching (instruction / training) and correctly tailoring schemes to your personnel in order to maximize their effectiveness is absolutely critical to success in the modern NFL.

If you want to win consistently coaching and scheme must be utilized to get (close to) premium performance from a group of average players (with a few premium or elite players sprinkled in). If the scheme needs an excess of premium talent to be effective then you need to look at the coach and/or scheme - not the players, ie; Gus Bradley and the legion of boom.

IMO this is the hierarchy for winning consistently in todays NFL: 1) Reasonable health (cannot lose QB1 for extended periods), 2) excellent coaching and schemes, 3) a few dependable elite players (usually 3 or 4, more if you're lucky or your QB's on his rookie contract), one of which must be the QB, 4) solid support players, 5) no distractions.

[Lefty2SLO]

In this day and age with the cap it's highly unlikely that you'll have many premium or elite players on any given team, since they eat up too much cap space. Coaching (instruction / training) and correctly tailoring schemes to your personnel in order to maximize their effectiveness is absolutely critical to success in the modern NFL.

If you want to win consistently coaching and scheme must be utilized to get (close to) premium performance from a group of average players (with a few premium or elite players sprinkled in). If the scheme needs an excess of premium talent to be effective then you need to look at the coach and/or scheme - not the players, ie; Gus Bradley and the legion of boom.

IMO this is the hierarchy for winning consistently in todays NFL: 1) Reasonable health (cannot lose QB1 for extended periods), 2) excellent coaching and schemes, 3) a few dependable elite players (usually 3 or 4, more if you're lucky or your QB's on his rookie contract), one of which must be the QB, 4) solid support players, 5) no distractions.

The last paragraph above is what's so disappointing about last year to me. We had more elite players (at least by reputation) than most of our competition, ie; Herbert, James, Bosa, Jackson, Slater (5 elites), with Allen, Williams and Lindsley (sp?) just a tick below them + what I though at least was a solid supporting cast. Unfortunately we failed #1) Slater out early, Jackson out early, Bosa out early, Herbert at 60%, Allen out 1/2 the year, we failed #2) coaching / schemes were miserable at best - coming nowhere near compensating for the loss or injury degradation of our remaining elite players, we failed #3) our remaining elite players did not make enough of a difference.

There was so much promise at the beginning of the season - I really thought the team would (finally) turn the corner (metaphorically speaking). Sigh . . . . The football gods are cruel.

[blueman]

They’re not cruel, they just hate us.

[perryao]

The Spano are paying for the new training facility.

About time. I wonder.

As for Reid vs McCoy, it was unknown at the time who would be better. Reid had just crashed and burned the last two seasons with the Eagles. McCoy was viewed as the new hot upcoming OC. It didn’t work out for us unfortunately.

Reid took over for a team that had "crashed and burned" before he got there. The previous year to his hiring, the Eagles went 3-13. They went 5-11 under Reid his first year, then averaged 12 wins per year for the next five. Reid had three losing seasons out of 14 as head coach of the Eagles.It may have been unknown at the time who would do better, but it was certainly highly probable that Reid would outperform McCoy.

A lot of people on this board wanted Urban Meyer since he was a winning HC, abeit in college, but he proved to be a horrible and expensive hire for the Jags.

The point isn't whether or not a coach like Urban Meyer (who didn't have the Andy Reid pedigree anyway), it's whether or not a wealthy owner has an advantage over a less wealthy owner. In other words, would it be more likely for a wealthy owner have the resources to hire someone like Reid/UM over a less wealthy owner.

As for stadiums, Kroenke is probably the only owner is the NFL who could do what he did. Every other owner, regardless of wealth, has gotten public financing for their stadium. It just is for good or bad.

It was one example, not the only one. I can come up with more.

Since you also brought up Kroenke, was he cheap since he only paid McVay $2 million a year when he first hired him in 2017?

There was no Reid caliber coach available when Kroenke brought in McVay.

[perryao]

Just for truth - people keep saying Spanos is too cheap to hire an experienced coach but they hired Marty after he had taken both the Browns and the Chiefs to the AFC championship game. He must have cost a bit more than a rookie HC would have cost.

This is a small-scale thing but I want to also mention that back when I agreed to help them start the CMB they were always both kind and generous to me.

I still believe Marty would have led this team to the Super Bowl if they had kept him around and canned AJ.

Alex Spanos hired Marty when most of their wealth was not concentrated in the illiquid value of the team.

[jamrock]

Still don’t think we have the premium talent we need to optimize Staley’s D schemes, and he doesn’t seem to be able to adjust all that well to that. Maybe no one could.

This is hilarious