Thoughts On Cutting Keenan Allen?

[ChargersPowderBlue]

I wish this thread is kept to players that have to do with the offensive side of the ball, and the discussion about players on the defensive side of the ball elsewhere.

If the team cuts Allen, it'll be tough. But I'll live with it. This organization doesn't have trouble finding players at WR. Though they do have had some failures at the position.

[charger1_sj]

I wish this thread is kept to players that have to do with the offensive side of the ball, and the discussion about players on the defensive side of the ball elsewhere.

If the team cuts Allen, it'll be tough. But I'll live with it. This organization doesn't have trouble finding players at WR. Though they do have had some failures at the position.

Well unless TT was lying or he changes his mind, (I guess both are possibilities) Allen stays with the Chargers. The question remains how do we get under the cap before
March 15th. Some guys will get cut (not Allen), others will get restructured (Allen possible), maybe some trades (not Allen) and finally some will walk in FA, but will have to
be replaced. Lots of moving parts. First order of business is the Ftag due tomorrow. I don't expect the Chargers will be Ftaging anybody. Next order of business will be the
beginning for FA talking (no contracts allowed) but they can negotiate. Followed by the big one on March 15th, the cap.

[Kellyb72601]

I love Mack too, and character goes a long way with me personally as a fan.
but I hate to see so much money tied up on defense with a QB like Herbert while our defensive genius HC continues to buy more defensive talent in FA.
My preference is to keep both for 2023, but if you trade Bosa, I'm fine with getting younger at both spots, especially if you buy the theory that the position itself is losing value due to refs not calling OL holding.
seriously, what's the point of having elite talent at edge if the NFL is going to neutralize them.
might as well move our assets elsewhere, preferably on offense.

Belichik has been trolling the rest of the NFL with this approach for years. How many big names has he ever had at pass rusher? Their most recent superbowl contending team Van Noy was their best pass rusher. He did kinda go out of character signing Matt Judon though. But typically New England and Baltimore have very good defenses and they do it without upper tier edge players. The key is they're always very big and physical in the front 7 and can stop the run with a 7 man front. When you can do that it makes everything else much easier.

[jamrock]

Belichik has been trolling the rest of the NFL with this approach for years. How many big names has he ever had at pass rusher? Their most recent superbowl contending team Van Noy was their best pass rusher. He did kinda go out of character signing Matt Judon though. But typically New England and Baltimore have very good defenses and they do it without upper tier edge players. The key is they're always very big and physical in the front 7 and can stop the run with a 7 man front. When you can do that it makes everything else much easier.

Belichick is an LB guy. He’s had Richard Seymour and another good IDL whose name escapes me at the moment but the hallmark of his defenses has been great LB play. That’s why I don’t buy Staley devaluation of the position. Good defenses have historically been anchored by stellar LB play.

[Bolt4Knob]

Belichick is an LB guy. He’s had Richard Seymour and another good IDL whose name escapes me at the moment but the hallmark of his defenses has been great LB play. That’s why I don’t buy Staley devaluation of the position. Good defenses have historically been anchored by stellar LB play.

Agreed. Popper mentions they aren't valued. But maybe they should be valued

[Boltjolt]

Belichik has been trolling the rest of the NFL with this approach for years. How many big names has he ever had at pass rusher? Their most recent superbowl contending team Van Noy was their best pass rusher. He did kinda go out of character signing Matt Judon though. But typically New England and Baltimore have very good defenses and they do it without upper tier edge players. The key is they're always very big and physical in the front 7 and can stop the run with a 7 man front. When you can do that it makes everything else much easier.

Baltimore had Suggs for years, they have signed Dumervil , Houston, drafted Z. Smith, and drafted Judon so that's inaccurate as far as the Ravens go.

Van Noy had 21 sacks for NE. They haven't had household names but had McGinnest for years and Vrabel. Tippett is their sack leader with 100, and had Seymour for years. They are a better example but to say they had nobodies is ridiculous.

If we think here a good pass rusher isn't needed, you are smoking the good stuff.

So to recap, we don't value LBs and now we shouldn't value pass rushers?

Got it! Let's stay the course with shitty defenses.

[Bolt4Knob]

Baltimore had Suggs for years, they have signed Dumervil , Houston, drafted Z. Smith, and drafted Judon so that's inaccurate as far as the Ravens go.

Van Noy had 21 sacks for NE. They haven't had household names but had McGinnest for years and Vrabel. Tippett is their sack leader with 100, and had Seymour for years. They are a better example but to say they had nobodies is ridiculous.

If we think here a good pass rusher isn't needed, you are smoking the good stuff.

So to recap, we don't value LBs and now we shouldn't value pass rushers?

Got it! Let's stay the course with shitty defenses.

Maybe the players on the defense aren't as good as well think. Maybe I even over-value what Derwin James truly brings to the defense

Consistent issues over the last 10 years - the defense cannot get off the damn field on third down.


So yes, I am not sure why Staley undervalues LB and yes, the team needs pass rush. But maybe these players are the wrong mix of players Again, adding SJD, Austin Johnson, Khalil Mack, JC Jackson to Bosa, James, Tranq, ASante, James -- individually, the players make sense. But collectively did they make sense.

[jubei]

Belichick is an LB guy. He’s had Richard Seymour and another good IDL whose name escapes me at the moment but the hallmark of his defenses has been great LB play. That’s why I don’t buy Staley devaluation of the position. Good defenses have historically been anchored by stellar LB play.

thats cuz staley is no defensive guru. his defense is actually offensive to be called a defense.

[Kellyb72601]

Baltimore had Suggs for years, they have signed Dumervil , Houston, drafted Z. Smith, and drafted Judon so that's inaccurate as far as the Ravens go.

Van Noy had 21 sacks for NE. They haven't had household names but had McGinnest for years and Vrabel. Tippett is their sack leader with 100, and had Seymour for years. They are a better example but to say they had nobodies is ridiculous.

If we think here a good pass rusher isn't needed, you are smoking the good stuff.

So to recap, we don't value LBs and now we shouldn't value pass rushers?

Got it! Let's stay the course with shitty defenses.

It's not that a good passrush isn't needed, but there are ways of creating pass-rush besides having great conventional edge rushers. Go back and watch our '18 playoff game at new england. Then the following week at KC and following week against the Rams. Belichik put on a clinic in all those games shutting down elite offenses & getting pressure in unconventional ways. The first thing is, your linebackers need to be able to run over backs. That's something his defenses have always done. It's not that difficult to create matchups with LBs against RBs but LBs have to be able to win those matchups. Next, you have to be able to create ample number of obvious passing situations. That's where run defense comes into play. You play with a light box to invite teams to run the ball then shut them down when they do. The only way you can do that is by having size and length all across the front 7. Staley wants to do this and tries to do it but he doesn't have the players to pull it off. You can't expect a personnel guy from the Polian tree to pull that off because that style of defense is the antithesis of Belichik style. Telesco doesn't know how to get the right players.

[rensoul]

It's not that a good passrush isn't needed, but there are ways of creating pass-rush besides having great conventional edge rushers. Go back and watch our '18 playoff game at new england. Then the following week at KC and following week against the Rams. Belichik put on a clinic in all those games shutting down elite offenses & getting pressure in unconventional ways. The first thing is, your linebackers need to be able to run over backs. That's something his defenses have always done. It's not that difficult to create matchups with LBs against RBs but LBs have to be able to win those matchups. Next, you have to be able to create ample number of obvious passing situations. That's where run defense comes into play. You play with a light box to invite teams to run the ball then shut them down when they do. The only way you can do that is by having size and length all across the front 7. Staley wants to do this and tries to do it but he doesn't have the players to pull it off. You can't expect a personnel guy from the Polian tree to pull that off because that style of defense is the antithesis of Belichik style. Telesco doesn't know how to get the right players.

They gave Staley practically whatever he wanted this past off-season, Day, Johnson, Mack, JCJ, Reeder, Van Noy, Callahan, Fox. That's only possible with a ton of cap room with a Qb on a rookie deal for 1-2 years max. I don't see personnel is the main issue.

Belichick throughout his career has adapted to his personnel. His defense doesn't stay stagnant, he figures out what his players do best and adapts game plans week to week that can look drastically different depending on who the opponent is. That's his trademark. I don't know what Staley's trademark is at this point.

It's a poor imitation of Fangio's scheme. It's a video game arcade version of let's ignore LB's and focus on DB's and running light boxes and give up the run to try to contain the pass. Which completely disregards what football is at a fundamental level, that it is a physical game of imposing their will on another team.

If he wants to copy Fangio then get it right, when Fangio's defense was run best in the last 20 years he had Willis, Bowman, Trevathan, and R. Smith.

[blueman]

To be fair, the D got hit with injuries right outta the box..not sure even Belicheat can devise an elite D with backups.

[Boltjolt]

It's not that a good passrush isn't needed, but there are ways of creating pass-rush besides having great conventional edge rushers. Go back and watch our '18 playoff game at new england. Then the following week at KC and following week against the Rams. Belichik put on a clinic in all those games shutting down elite offenses & getting pressure in unconventional ways. The first thing is, your linebackers need to be able to run over backs. That's something his defenses have always done. It's not that difficult to create matchups with LBs against RBs but LBs have to be able to win those matchups. Next, you have to be able to create ample number of obvious passing situations. That's where run defense comes into play. You play with a light box to invite teams to run the ball then shut them down when they do. The only way you can do that is by having size and length all across the front 7. Staley wants to do this and tries to do it but he doesn't have the players to pull it off. You can't expect a personnel guy from the Polian tree to pull that off because that style of defense is the antithesis of Belichik style. Telesco doesn't know how to get the right players.

Name the LBs in the league that win matchups with RBs? It's a very short list. OCs actually like those matchups.

And agree, there are other ways but you need edge rushers that can disrupt. Blitzing leaves the middle open and DCs will see the weaknesses on tape if your outside pressure is weak.
Just makes it easier to disguise things when you have capable edge rushers.....or Aaron Donald.

I for one think we need better LBs, or at least one stud in the middle. It wouldn't upset me if our first pick was Drew Sanders.