Grice cut dl to be added soon

[sandiego17]

Are you insane?! Phillips was way better than Freeney and Ingram put together last year.
Freeney and Ingram were healthy for a total of 8 games last year and registered a combined total of 1.5 sacks.

Nope, not insane. Are you Phillips #1 superfanboy? Freeney was playing well before getting hurt, every bit as well as Phillips, and Ingram was coming off a torn acl. I guess if you're trying to make some sort of point about your favorite broncotitan that qualifies as healthy?

Over a whole season, that amounts to 3 sacks.

Ya, that's how it works. It's exactly double what they got in the 8 "healthy" games. I think we may need to see proof if that 5 you claim.

In regards to the rest of your nonsense, SACKS!

[sandiego17]

Phillips played better last year than guys who didn't play and other guys who sucked last year. There's something to be said for guys who are just guys who don't miss the majority of the season.

Except the only reason he played better than those guys is because those guys were hurt, and I don't care about his sack numbers. Ingram got hurt, shit happens. That does not mean Phillips should have been brought back. He does nothing for this team.

Guys who are just guys and are compensated like just guys are better than guys who just suck. And guys who are just guys are better than higher paid, more-skilled players who don't play.
I'm not sure what non just-guy from my list played a position that Phillips couldn't have played, but I'll take your word for it that I included somebody who didn't.

JJ. Guys like Phillips who are on their third team in three seasons are compensated like the non impact, non difference makers that they are. Question for you (not Yuba, I've heard his answer and disagree), why do you think both the chargers and broncos didn't make any effort to bring him back? We already know it isn't salary.

I was on the bandwagon for getting rid of Phillips last year. I never liked his attitude and was happy to not be rooting for him. But, in this one case, it seems to me Yubaking was right about something. And the argument won't die until somebody points out the fact Yubaking was right.

Yubaking, you were right. Now you can stop arguing over this.

You're initial thought was correct. Yuba isn't even in the same area code as right.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

Speaking of area codes, this is the Grice thread... Keep your garbage in the right thread guys!

[Panama]

And, in case anyone cares...

:lmao: :rofl:

[Steve]

Last year, was Shaun Phillips better than any outside linebacker who played for us? Was he better than Tourek Williams? Was he better than Reggie Walker? Was he better than Larry English? Was he better than Dwight Freeney? Was he better than Melvin Ingram? Was he better than Jarret Johnson? Was he better than Thomas Keiser?

All of the players you listed except Williams was better then Phillips, although in the case of JJ it was because he is a better run defender. Again, ANYONE could have gotten those sacks. And if it was a choice of Williams vs Phillips, I still would have kept Williams by virtue of his not being on his last legs.

People are suggesting that Phillips is a better player based on better production, but that is flat out WRONG. The production was a fact he was on a better team and on the field more. But anyoen who played DE for the Broncos in Phillips place would probably have had similar produiction. Again, it was the other DL and LB for the Donks that flushed the QB to Phillips.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

Phillip s was a turd, we got rid of our turds... Ask JJ.

[blahblahblah]

Why do we care about this "Phillips" fellow?

[Yubaking]

Nope, not insane. Are you Phillips #1 superfanboy? Freeney was playing well before getting hurt, every bit as well as Phillips, and Ingram was coming off a torn acl. I guess if you're trying to make some sort of point about your favorite broncotitan that qualifies as healthy?



Ya, that's how it works. It's exactly double what they got in the 8 "healthy" games. I think we may need to see proof if that 5 you claim.

In regards to the rest of your nonsense, SACKS!

I am not even a Philips fan at all, but I am capable of being objective when it comes to discussing Phillips unlike many on this forum.

It is totally ridiculous that you think Freeney was playing "every bit as well as Phillips" before getting hurt. Based upon what?! He had all of .5 sacks on the season before going down against Dallas. Freeney contributes virtually nothing else to a team outside of his pass rush--he's a one trick pony. The guy is a pure pass rusher who failed to provide an effective pass rush. You don't just get to make up crap about Freeney playing well and somehow it counts as being true. There is nothing to support your utterly absurd assertion.

I said Ingram was not as effective when he played. I did not say why. I agree that Ingram's knee did not help him when he returned later in the season, but I've got news for you, Ingram has no history of being a top end pass rusher like Phillips. You can't assume he would have been better than or even as good as Phillips if healthy and I take it from your comment that you are conceding that he was not as good as Phillips contrary to your earlier post.

My earlier point was that Phillips produced better sack numbers than Freeney and Ingram combined on a per game basis. Naturally, I only needed to establish that Phillips was better than both individually on a per game basis, but your assertion was so absurd as neither Freeney nor Ingram did much of anything as a pass rusher last year and Phillips was a top 20 sack artist with 10 sacks. There's nothing else in any of their games last year that is going to offset that disparity.

[Beerman]

Phillips was 31 then, three years younger than Freeney is now.

Ingram was not going to play every down for us. His quality sub was...nobody, even if he never got injured. (Everyone on this forum is estopped from arguing English was a quality sub.)

Phillips was dirt cheap for what production he provided. He still is.

Phillips was not coming off of his worst year. He had 9.5 sacks for us in 2012. He has not been particularly injury prone over his career, so there should have been no/minimal injury concerns.

Phillips was better than every OLB on our team last year and was so for not that much over the veteran minimum, so yeah, it kind of ended up being a pretty big deal.

Telesco screwed up and while we have made strides this offseason with the addition of Attaochu, we are still looking at having to add more OLBs due not having kept Phillips and Barnes if Freeney, and likely JJ too, are not with us next year. This interferes with our ability to add at other positions too. So, yeah, it matters.

Ingram was going to play every down. Not sure why you think he wasn't. 1st round picks are every down players, particularly ones that can handle the run (like Ingram).

English and JJ were slotted to handle the SAM as a pair. We had a 6th rounder as the 4th OLB.

Not great depth, but there would have been no real issues if Ingram doesn't tear his ACL.

When that happened, everything went to shit. Your beloved Philips and Barnes were signed elsewhere. Barnes got a starting gig in NYJ where he proceeded to go on IR. Philips got the a backup spot with Denver. Both players got better jobs in terms of expected playtime than they would have gotten with the Chargers AT THE TIME THEY SIGNED with those clubs.

So why would either player sign with the Chargers to be 4th on the depth chart? Barnes was 4th the previous year and got 15% of the snaps with everyone healthy. That's what Philips had in store for him as well if Ingram would have remained healthy.

Again, your bullshit argument holds no fucking water for the penultimate time. Stop living in a fantasy world and come back to reality where a team doesn't just snap it's fingers and all the players it wants are signed automatically.

Prior to Ingram's injury it just wasn't a priority to bring back either of those players, nor was it in their best interests to return to the team.

Freeney was a completely reactionary signing that happened out of necessity. I do agree it was a risk that TT took in not having great depth at OLB, but given the state of the roster he took over, it was an understandable risk. A risk he didn't have to take this offseason.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

Let's all be objective in 140 words or less, anything more is linguistic gymnastics...

Not to be confused with cunalingus...

[Yubaking]

All of the players you listed except Williams was better then Phillips, although in the case of JJ it was because he is a better run defender. Again, ANYONE could have gotten those sacks. And if it was a choice of Williams vs Phillips, I still would have kept Williams by virtue of his not being on his last legs.

People are suggesting that Phillips is a better player based on better production, but that is flat out WRONG. The production was a fact he was on a better team and on the field more. But anyoen who played DE for the Broncos in Phillips place would probably have had similar produiction. Again, it was the other DL and LB for the Donks that flushed the QB to Phillips.

Sorry, but your post is total horse manure.

Phillips has spent a career getting vulture sacks when others couldn't. There is a knack to it. If anyone could do it they would. But the point is that they can't.

There is nothing flukish about Phillips' sack numbers last year. They are right in line with what he has done over the course of his whole career. The dude is very consistent with all seasons but one in his last 9 seasons producing between 7.0 and 11.5 sacks and an average (not counting the one injury riddled season) of 9.0 sacks per season.

Also, Phillips led the Broncos in sacks with 10.0. The 3 next best Broncos had 6.0, 5.5 and 5.0 sacks, respectively. So Phillips nearly doubled the next best other players in terms of sacks. So your view is that anyone could have gotten those sacks, yet Phillips did so at nearly twice the rate of anyone else, finishing with nearly identical numbers as he finished with the year before when with a completely different team. To say the least, your theory is incredibly unpersuasive.

There is a reason why the Titans gave him a raise and a two year deal to play for them as a 33-year-old. They could see that he was not done by his above average performance last year. Anyone trying to be objective could see that. Obviously, Phillips was much better than any LB that we had last year, including Johnson, who missed considerable time with injury and was not as effective against the run as he had been previously when he played as evidenced by our getting run all over last year. None of our pass rushers did anything, so Phillips was way better than any of them.

[blueman]

Why does this thread remind me of Zardoz? ...without the hippies :/