Justin Herbert - Bolts Franchise QB Official Discussion

[dmac_bolt]

He is a quiet type like Herbert is and also is calm so sure he does. You named Rivers hyper traits as negative lol. Im just comparing similar QBs. Again, im on Herberts side here,you keep taking it in another direction from a simple comment from his team mates.

I posted the hypothesis for consideration that perhaps the hyper-Phil behaviors that many think was a great attribute and demonstration of leadership was in fact not 100% great. We don’t know as fact either way - there is no controlled Calm-Phil vs Hyper-Phil clinical study to know that if he just played calmly and not got so amped up, he would have done better. My thesis dissertation isn’t directed at you, apologies if it seems that way. You have read all of the other posters like I have, you know which players are wearing which jerseys.

I think back to our long collective and generally positive history with Phil and I begin to connect some dots, maybe they should be connected and maybe not. All I know for certain is our Phil never was able to win a big one. In fact, his “big one” performance was well below his regular season history.

I’m 100% down that Herbie will be the best QB in the history of the Chargers. Herbie does not need to be like any other prior Charger QB. I have never said he can’t improve or get better, thats a straw horse to deflect what I am saying. I am saying he shouldn’t try and be “more like” anyone else. For one, Phil never proved it is “the way”. For two, just because it may have worked for Phil (if it did?), that doesn’t mean it would work for Herbie. Herbie’s personality is not at all like Phil, him trying to be like Phil is more likely to fuck him up than help.

And I’m not saying we haven’t had great QBs - I think Phil is HOF worthy based on his regular season career. but his playoff experience leaves him with an uncertain vote if we are honest. Herbie is destined to surpass him and every other. Thats my very strong belief, thats all. I saw Fouts first days (horrible), I saw Phil’s first days (very good but also after sitting for several years), and I saw Herbie’s. Herbie astounds me like no Charger QB ever has and he did it from the first game and on. He wasn’t prepared and prepped to be starting QB, he was tagged during pregame to start.

I don’t want Herbie to “be more like” anyone else because I think he is better than any other Charger QB. You don’t get even better by modeling others who were not as good. so naturally i disagree with those who imagine they have such great insight into humanity, player psychology and the intricacy of playing elite NFL QB that they’d offer opinions on what he should be. I don’t think you are saying that, again doesn’t necessarily apply to you. Apologies in advance.

And again, yes he can get even better. Just watch 2023 - he will be, without trying to be more like Phil.

[dmac_bolt]

Dont agree but ok. He is going to be a HOFer and you dont get there from the negatives you are listing. Been that way his whole life and id argue thats his way and it helps him and that what got him to where he is. Eli was quite the opposite and wasnt as good a QB as Phil even if he has 2 rings. Getting rings is a team effort, not an individual one.

Not sure why we need to keep this argument going. Phil was a great QB and a great Charger who also played hurt and had a season with injured ribs. Took nobodys at WR and made them look good.

The only reason for it is some have posted that Herbie should be more like Phil.

[Boltjolt]

I posted the hypothesis for consideration that perhaps the hyper-Phil behaviors that many think was a great attribute and demonstration of leadership was in fact not 100% great. We don’t know as fact either way - there is no controlled Calm-Phil vs Hyper-Phil clinical study to know that if he just played calmly and not got so amped up, he would have done better. My thesis dissertation isn’t directed at you, apologies if it seems that way. You have read all of the other posters like I have, you know which players are wearing which jerseys.

I think back to our long collective and generally positive history with Phil and I begin to connect some dots, maybe they should be connected and maybe not. All I know for certain is our Phil never was able to win a big one. In fact, his “big one” performance was well below his regular season history.

I’m 100% down that Herbie will be the best QB in the history of the Chargers. Herbie does not need to be like any other prior Charger QB. I have never said he can’t improve or get better, thats a straw horse to deflect what I am saying. I am saying he shouldn’t try and be “more like” anyone else. For one, Phil never proved it is “the way”. For two, just because it may have worked for Phil (if it did?), that doesn’t mean it would work for Herbie. Herbie’s personality is not at all like Phil, him trying to be like Phil is more likely to fuck him up than help.

And I’m not saying we haven’t had great QBs - I think Phil is HOF worthy based on his regular season career. but his playoff experience leaves him with an uncertain vote if we are honest. Herbie is destined to surpass him and every other. Thats my very strong belief, thats all. I saw Fouts first days (horrible), I saw Phil’s first days (very good but also after sitting for several years), and I saw Herbie’s. Herbie astounds me like no Charger QB ever has and he did it from the first game and on. He wasn’t prepared and prepped to be starting QB, he was tagged during pregame to start.

I don’t want Herbie to “be more like” anyone else because I think he is better than any other Charger QB. You don’t get even better by modeling others who were not as good. so naturally i disagree with those who imagine they have such great insight into humanity, player psychology and the intricacy of playing elite NFL QB that they’d offer opinions on what he should be. I don’t think you are saying that, again doesn’t necessarily apply to you. Apologies in advance.

And again, yes he can get even better. Just watch 2023 - he will be, without trying to be more like Phil.

Ok, I agree for the most part but nobody is saying be just like Phil. Taking control of his team doesn't mean be like Phil.

I would of just said I agree, but you keep going there lol.

[Boltjolt]

The only reason for it is some have posted that Herbie should be more like Phil.

I don't think they have. There are just saying Phil was the leader of this team and he played his game. That's all Keenan and Ekeler are saying...for Herb to play his game.

[sonorajim]

I don't think they have. There are just saying Phil was the leader of this team and he played his game. That's all Keenan and Ekeler are saying...for Herb to play his game.

I have no context regards Slayer and Ekeler's comments and don't care. Interpreting what friends and teammates say to or about each other? Whatever.
They work together very well indeed.

[richpjr]

I have no context regards Slayer and Ekeler's comments and don't care. Interpreting what friends and teammates say to or about each other? Whatever.
They work together very well indeed.

I think it is pretty obvious that some are making way more out of it than intended, from the context. The reality is, Herbert is never going to be a fiery in your face guy like Rivers and will lead, and succeed, in his own manner. And it seems pretty clear to me that he will far exceed Rivers as a QB - and that is saying something.

[richpjr]

[DerwinBosa]

Dan Fouts, MFIC, may have been the fieriest leader we've ever had at quarterback. He was certainly the most demanding. The MFIC hat was awesome.

But he never won a Super Bowl, and on two separate occasions threw five interceptions in a playoff game, so I guess someone here will say he can go @%&* himself.

[chargeroo]

Fouts was sure a fierce competitor but so were Hadl before him and Rivers after him.

Hadl played the game like it was a dog fight. Rivers never gave up, never!

I thought I saw that same kind of competitor in Herbert. Remember all those fourth and long completions against the raiders. Herbert isn't as demonstrative as Dan or Hadl or even PR but these franchise-type QBs all seem to have that trait in common.

[DerwinBosa]

I don't think they have. There are just saying Phil was the leader of this team and he played his game. That's all Keenan and Ekeler are saying...for Herb to play his game.

One person in this thread made a joke about how Herbert should be more like Rivers and Keenan should be more like Ekeler. It was obvious he was kidding. One person clearly didn't get it.

Allen's been talking about it since before Herbert's second season.

Chargers wideout Keenan Allen, conspicuously dressed in a bright violet polo with matching sneakers, is sitting next to a buffet, plowing through a plate of biscuits and grits. I pull up a chair and ask him what it was like playing with a rookie quarterback after seven seasons of catching passes from Philip Rivers. "Phil has the knowledge, the experience," he says. "But as far as athletic ability?" He snorts. "It's not even close. The guy is throwing 70-yard bombs as he gets hit."

It doesn't take a genius to figure this out. Herbert still has room to grow in the area Rivers excelled as a cerebral quarterback. That's understandable for a quarterback going into his fourth season in comparison to a guy who started for 15 years. Most quarterbacks, no matter how hard they work at it, will never be able to throw the ball the way Herbert does. One would think Herbert's potential to grow into the quarterback Rivers was from an X's and O's standpoint would be cause for excitement, with Herbert becoming much better as he learns more. Whatever, though.

Later in the article:

Herbert is Rivers' polar opposite in more ways than one. Allen can't remember a single instance of the rookie screaming in his presence; Rivers was, of course, well known for his antics on the field. "Phil's gonna yell every play," Allen says, cackling. "His team, the other team, he don't care. Phil yellin'." But the wide receiver is quick to point out that, for all of their ostensible differences, Rivers and Herbert share the same competitive fervor, it just manifests itself in different ways. During the Chargers' losing streak last year, he says, Herbert used to sit by himself at his locker for hours after games in full pads, eyes straight ahead. "I had to tell him, 'Bro: Let it go,'" says Allen. "'It ain't got nothing to do with you. Leave it out on the field.'"

Pretty much sums it up. In no way did he or anyone else say one way of leading is better than the other. At this point he, Ekeler, and probably many others just want Justin in his own way to make it clearer that it's his team.

[powderblueboy]

Considering how many records Herbie broke in his first few years, not really concerned how he stacks up to any other QB we’ve had. Sheeeeit.

Herbie is still waiting for his 1rst playoff victory on teams more stacked then what Rivers had his last decade here.

[Boltjolt]

Herbie is still waiting for his 1rst playoff victory on teams more stacked then what Rivers had his last decade here.

Really? Most wins the team has had so far with Herb is 10. Rivers teams had 14,13, 12 & 11 a couple times. The team Norv took over was pretty stacked. 2018 we won 12 games and tied for the division. Just saying we had better stacked teams then than we had the last three seasons.