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Originally posted by Tol
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My PFF 3-rounder …
Trent McDuffie
Devonte Wyatt
Skyy Moore
I didn’t know their fucking sim only went 3 rounds. I like my pics, yet feel flaccid.“Less is more? NO NO NO - MORE is MORE!”Comment
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If the Chargers can fill these 3 holes, I will be the happiest Chargers fan.Originally posted by dmac_bolt View PostComment
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Everyone was talking in previous years about blowing up the OL and starting over. If you want to blow up a position group, DL is the group to do it to. There are only 2 starting DL who need to play that much, with a 3rd DT who is used sparingly as a run-down specialist. Depth would help, but we have to get some starters first.
Justin Jones as a FA is the best of a bad lot on our DL. He has his moments, and they are more frequent than Tillery but not by much. Neither has developed into a starter at DT. Neither is even average as a pass rusher, and they make up for it by being poor run defenders. They are both athletic and quick enough to get upfield and make some splash plays, but they get their asses thrown around A LOT because they are sloppy players.
When you look at our DL, Linval Joesph was by far the best player on the starting DL, and he had the worst season of his career. He got some push on pass rush, but was a liability as a run defender, which is a bad thing as a NT.
The better players are actually the backups but not by much.
Blowing the whole meeting room up and starting over makes the most sense. It only takes 5 guys to have a true DL in a base 34 team. 1 NT, 4 DE types, who can slide inside and play DT in the 4 man front.
Adding someone like Jordan Davis isn't going to fix our run D. Even if he was the best DT in football, and I really don't think he is very good, it wouldn't help by itself. We need a new DL and guys who can play on run and pass downs, not just specialists like Davis. Tillery has some raw physical ability, and we don't save anything by cutting him, so bring him in as a camp body, but let him know if he doesn't play better he is gone at the end of TC. Don't sign Jones to a new deal unless it is the kind that let's us get rid of him too. Then you could bring him back but let him know his job isn't safe either.Comment
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I think Justin Jones is going to have a market in free agency. He’s not gonna get a massive pay day, but he’ll get a decent pay day. The real decision maker here should be Staley. Does he feel like Jones can be a meaningful contributor on an above average unit?
And that’s the other thing to remember, is that it’s impossible to evaluate these guys without considering the unit. I’m guessing Jones would look better if he were playing next to a stud who was constantly demanding double teams.Comment
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I'm looking at their technique. It's sloppy, and you can evaluate that. They need to stay square when trying to attack upfield, not dip their shoulder and try to avoid the blocks. They lose leverage and get pushed around. And both Tillery and Jones do it a lot. When they stay square, they are both solid, but they don't do it much.
If there is someone to keep, Linval Joesph has a positive history to draw from. He was bad last year, but prior to that he has been above average since his 2nd season. He is not worth a lot of money, he has to be used sparely, but he can fill the role of the base D NT, and a guy who gets a few snaps in a 4 man pass rush line here and there. We could even slide him over to play DE if we target Joesph Day, Fatukasi or DJ Jones.
Tim Settle is another guy who plays pretty well when he gets a chance and has decent technique. He just doesn't get much playing time because he is the 4th DT in a rotation with 2 former first-round picks (Johnathan Allen and Daron Payne) and Matt Ioannidis. He is the kind of guy you could take a short-term flyer on and he would be an immediate upgrade as a FA. He is only OK vs the run, but I think that is somewhat that he tries to hard to make the big play and penetrate and blow every play up in the backfield. And he is a solid pass rushers, so he might be a good fit as a base DE, and the DT spot in the 4 man line.Comment
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Jones is in a spot where you want a guy that commands doubles, not benefit from someone else getting doubled. I agree and disagree with couple posts back which was a great post. Blow it Up - absolutely. The faith some have in our practice squad baffles me. They played plenty last year to see what they are. They are scrubs. i rate Jones is the best of the unit, not Lindval, disagree there. Either resign JJ or sign a different Starter FA. Then also sign new rotational guys to try out and compete with the Grazianos and Fehokos of the world. Then use one of the top 3 picks on a starter. Understand he could take some time to adjust to NFL, so what. We need better talent in that unit. They got fucking mauled all year long. MAULED!Originally posted by Parcells View Post
I’ve ran several mocks the last day, i keep getting good DL prospects in Rd 2. This crowd of gurus has convinced me that a Jordon Davis typei is not the best option vs, say, a Devonte Wyatt or Travon Walker. Although if we took JDavis, I’m not going to cry - someone that clogs it all up for 2 downs would be just fine. In my few mocks, I’ve ended up Edge at 17 and DT in 2. Still finding an OT in Rd 3. But at 17, the sims BPA impact player at one of our critical defensive needs is Edge or CB.
An edge opposite Joey and a better interior DL - a couple new cover guys - that is key to the off season. RT. Throw some later round Fliers on some speedster WR and inside RB. Who knows, with all of that improved talent, Murray might even learn how to play NFL football?“Less is more? NO NO NO - MORE is MORE!”Comment
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The reasoning that a NT will open up the D if they force a double team consistently is true. If you get a player like that, they do make life easier on the players around them. I just don't necessarily see Davis as one of those guys. He is the big sloppy type of guy. He is sloppy technique-wise. He is slow off the ball, doesn't use his hands well, and stands mostly straight up.
I know, Davis is DIFFERENT. Maybe, but players of his type don't go on to do much of anything. Why is he going to be any different? Point to the elite player who is a similar type of guy? I can only think of 3, and none of them was really that elite. Vince Wilfork, Marcus Strout and Marcell Darius. All had some good or great stretches, but only for a limited time, although Wilfork was a solid player for a long time (never all that dominant).
Dontari Poe, Louis Nix, Danny Shelton, John Jenkins ... all these draft gurus point out how great it would be to have such a dominant DT who would free up all the other players on the DL and LB, and then these guys go on and don't do anything. They are sloppy players who aren't very good, who had impressive upside, but never developed.
The guys who go on to be big, impressive NT in the NFL are not usually the massive imposing types. Ted Washington, Keith Traylor, Jamal Williams, Terrance (Potroast) Knighton, and a lot of others were smaller guys who got big in weight rooms and ate their way into the NT spot and BECAME massive. But those guys also had some get-off and played with leverage. And if you draft one of them, and they don't grow into a huge guy, you still have a 300+ lb guy who can play every down. What a crime that would be.Comment
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The more Jordon tape I’ve watched, the more I agree. He’s big and sloppy and has gotten away with just being bigger and stronger vs NCAA OL. I don’t know that will work at the next level. I think he might go before 17 anyway. But on the other side, DO NOT get another too-tall undersized “quick” DL player aka Tillery that can’t play low and loses leverage on 2 of every 3 plays because NFL level OGs know exactly how to neutralize those guys. 6-2”, 6-3” 310 - 315 with some burst and quicks but ALSO low set strength to hold point of attack is the ticketOriginally posted by Steve View Post“Less is more? NO NO NO - MORE is MORE!”Comment
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Tillery isn't losing leverage because he is TOO TALL. That is complete and utter bullshit. The HOF is full of players who are similar height playing DT. see below
(https://www.thepowderblues.com/forum...51#post1218051)
(https://www.thepowderblues.com/forum...72#post1303672)
He is losing leverage because he likes to dip his shoulder and try and slip blocks instead of taking them on. He doesn't use his hands that well. That is why he gets his ass kicked.
By the way, short players have short arms, so while they may have natural leverage being low to the ground they also get pounded on by taller players across from them.Comment
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I have the same experience with my mocks, the 2nd round is the sweet spot for getting a DT. The 1st round could go many ways. 17 looks like a good spot to draft this year.Originally posted by dmac_bolt View PostNow, if you excuse me, I have some Charger memories to suppress.
The Wasted Decade is done.
Build Back Better.Comment
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The problem with Jordan Davis isn't that he's a 2 down player. It's that he's a 1 down player. <30% of snaps this year. <35% of snaps last 2 years. Still got gassed.
Some guys are just so big their lungs don't support their bodies.
Improving his technique will improve his effective conditioning. Right now he mainly just pushes people. But he needs a lot of improvement.
I like all of the 2nd round DT prospects more than him. When watching trenchwork I look at feet and hands first. Explosive first step, good footwork, relentless hands.Comment
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