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Over Under on Melvin Ingram Sacks

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  • Originally posted by FoutsFan View Post

    To your point I have often seen football people say that such and such team had an overall bad defense but their run defense was actually really good. When you dig into the stats you find their pass defense was so bad that teams rarely ran on them so the run defense statistically appeared good. Or vise versa with teams and a bad run defense, teams will run the ball all day and not pass as often so their pass defense statistically appears to be good. When you watch the games closely you can tell that the overall defense was just bad.
    PERFECT example. I thought the bolts were that way once with one aspect of their D.

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    • Originally posted by Xenos View Post

      Going to address the bolded only just because that's what I want to :
      1) Let me rephrase it then since ribbing someone is harder on the Internet. Have you heard of the saying "can't see the forest for the trees"? That's what's happening right now. You're so caught up on certain stats like sacks or interceptions, that you're missing the context and the bigger picture. Why is it that someone like Dwight Freeney, one of the best pass rushers in the NFL, think that sacks are a stupid stat? It's because football is such a complicated sport that data and stats provide a very surface level look. And you're talking to a guy who loves data, stats, and analytics. But the reality is that it's hard to quantify something that has so many moving parts. Even PFF can't get it right. Hopefully something that will make you appreciate football even more.

      2) I would pick Super Mel in real life. And if I was Todd Bowles, I would pick Super Mel as well for my defense. That scheme was quite conducive for someone like Barrett. As for Madden, I suppose that's where stats would matter more. Same thing with Fantasy Football I guess.
      Once again you show your ignorance. I don't look at stats and that's the end all be all. You're completely blowing it out of proportion. You really think I don't know that players need many skills to be a well rounded player? You really think I just believe edge rushers have one job to sack the QB? You really think that I believe CB's are just there for INT's? Come on. That is completely ignorant.

      No matter what, sacks, pocket pushes, run stops, QB hurries, drop back in coverage whatever..... That doesn't change my position on Ingram. Or Jammer. I think both are solid. They're excellent players. You act like not gushing over them is wrong. No, I simply bring them down a rung or two from where you put them on the ladder. I consider them above average you have them as elite. That is where we differ. Also what you down play as ribbing I found insulting (that goes triplicate for Steve).

      Just wish you guys could have a good discussion without personal attacks and insulting your fellow Charger fans. I have been a Charger fan for about 30 years now, but you and Steve just call me out as an fucking idiot that can't comprehend football without stats. Rather than have conversation or disagreements like fellow fans should. Have a little respect for other peoples opinions even if it doesn't align with your own arrogance and godlike football intellect. Whatever......

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Paradoxrip View Post

        Once again you show your ignorance. I don't look at stats and that's the end all be all. You're completely blowing it out of proportion. You really think I don't know that players need many skills to be a well rounded player? You really think I just believe edge rushers have one job to sack the QB? You really think that I believe CB's are just there for INT's? Come on. That is completely ignorant.

        No matter what, sacks, pocket pushes, run stops, QB hurries, drop back in coverage whatever..... That doesn't change my position on Ingram. Or Jammer. I think both are solid. They're excellent players. You act like not gushing over them is wrong. No, I simply bring them down a rung or two from where you put them on the ladder. I consider them above average you have them as elite. That is where we differ. Also what you down play as ribbing I found insulting (that goes triplicate for Steve).

        Just wish you guys could have a good discussion without personal attacks and insulting your fellow Charger fans. I have been a Charger fan for about 30 years now, but you and Steve just call me out as an fucking idiot that can't comprehend football without stats. Rather than have conversation or disagreements like fellow fans should. Have a little respect for other peoples opinions even if it doesn't align with your own arrogance and godlike football intellect. Whatever......
        A few things:
        1) I thought we were having a good football discussion.
        2) In terms of personal attacks, notice that I refrained from resorting to cussing to make a point.
        3) Never said Ingram was elite. He's also not a journeyman. He's a good to very good player that would thrive in Todd Bowles' scheme. Jammer is elite though.
        4) You started a thread asking about sacks for some reason. So \_(ツ)_/

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Xenos View Post

          A few things:
          1) I thought we were having a good football discussion.
          2) In terms of personal attacks, notice that I refrained from resorting to cussing to make a point.
          3) Never said Ingram was elite. He's also not a journeyman. He's a good to very good player that would thrive in Todd Bowles' scheme. Jammer is elite though.
          4) You started a thread asking about sacks for some reason. So \_(ツ)_/
          Just following Steve's lead....

          Comment


          • Steve likes to stir the pot, don’t sweat it.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Paradoxrip View Post

              Just following Steve's lead....
              I can assure you that I am my own person. And an ass on my own

              With that being said, I do apologize. You have valuable opinions as well. Obviously this has gone in a different direction than what I thought when I wrote my responses. But I'm not going to be responsible for creating an environment where we can't in the end just have fun or learn more. At the end of the day, I rather be putting my energy towards hating the rest of the AFC West rather than my fellow Charger fan. So can we just put this aside and move forward?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Paradoxrip View Post


                Steve, ok you're right. I know nothing about football I am just an ignorant person that believe stats do hold some value and they do tell a story. Excuse my stupidity.

                Again, I think Ingram AND Jammer both are average players. I don't think either of played to the level of their contracts. I don't think either overachieved. Guess what... That's my fucking opinion be it right or wrong.

                Now go piss on someone else with your holier than thou football arrogance.
                They tell a story, but not the kind of story you are trying to tell. They aren't conclusive any way shape or form, and that is just the nature of statistics.

                I am not saying your opinion is wrong, I am saying you are doing a bad job of trying to convivence anyone what you think is true. Your terminology is sloppy at best, and the rest of your statements are argumentative at best.

                As far as it goes, you might want to lead with the overachieving part. That is the most compelling part of your argument that you have made.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Xenos View Post

                  I can assure you that I am my own person. And an ass on my own

                  With that being said, I do apologize. You have valuable opinions as well. Obviously this has gone in a different direction than what I thought when I wrote my responses. But I'm not going to be responsible for creating an environment where we can't in the end just have fun or learn more. At the end of the day, I rather be putting my energy towards hating the rest of the AFC West rather than my fellow Charger fan. So can we just put this aside and move forward?
                  You deleted your post before I could respond. As for being sloppy? I really don't care.... Because this quarantine is making me smoke a lot more than usual. So I am saying I am usually high as hell when writing and responding. Just being honest.

                  If you've ever smoked conversations can get a bit... Random? For the most part I stand by what I've said and I accept and apologize myself. We're Chargers brothers FFS.

                  I truely hope Mel has a stellar season I really do. Contract year it could happen.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Paradoxrip View Post

                    Once again you show your ignorance. I don't look at stats and that's the end all be all. You're completely blowing it out of proportion. You really think I don't know that players need many skills to be a well rounded player? You really think I just believe edge rushers have one job to sack the QB? You really think that I believe CB's are just there for INT's? Come on. That is completely ignorant.

                    No matter what, sacks, pocket pushes, run stops, QB hurries, drop back in coverage whatever..... That doesn't change my position on Ingram. Or Jammer. I think both are solid. They're excellent players. You act like not gushing over them is wrong. No, I simply bring them down a rung or two from where you put them on the ladder. I consider them above average you have them as elite. That is where we differ. Also what you down play as ribbing I found insulting (that goes triplicate for Steve).

                    Just wish you guys could have a good discussion without personal attacks and insulting your fellow Charger fans. I have been a Charger fan for about 30 years now, but you and Steve just call me out as an fucking idiot that can't comprehend football without stats. Rather than have conversation or disagreements like fellow fans should. Have a little respect for other peoples opinions even if it doesn't align with your own arrogance and godlike football intellect. Whatever......
                    I'll agree with you...elite to me is like top 5 defenders...Ingram is no ray Lewis but yet he's getting paid twice as much. Ingram is a solid defender and since we're not paying for rivers I can deal with over payment for the time being. Plus, we need to factor in how the virus is going to affect ticket sales for this year and next. They say players with big salaries are going to be cap casualties starting next season.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Paradoxrip View Post

                      You deleted your post before I could respond. As for being sloppy? I really don't care.... Because this quarantine is making me smoke a lot more than usual. So I am saying I am usually high as hell when writing and responding. Just being honest.

                      If you've ever smoked conversations can get a bit... Random? For the most part I stand by what I've said and I accept and apologize myself. We're Chargers brothers FFS.

                      I truely hope Mel has a stellar season I really do. Contract year it could happen.
                      Wait what? To the bolded part mostly.

                      Also yay!

                      Also never smoked but also laughing at that part as well because it is random.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by gzubeck View Post

                        I'll agree with you...elite to me is like top 5 defenders...Ingram is no ray Lewis but yet he's getting paid twice as much. Ingram is a solid defender and since we're not paying for rivers I can deal with over payment for the time being. Plus, we need to factor in how the virus is going to affect ticket sales for this year and next. They say players with big salaries are going to be cap casualties starting next season.
                        Inflation and escalation of salary cap. Ray in his prime would make 10 times now than what he did back in the early 2000s.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Xenos View Post

                          Inflation and escalation of salary cap. Ray in his prime would make 10 times now than what he did back in the early 2000s.
                          No...he would be getting around what Melvin Ingram is getting paid. Teams are getting more leary about big guaranteed contracts going forward.

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