Over Under on Melvin Ingram Sacks

[Steve]

Bottom line is he hasn't dominated. He has been good. Not great. He got paid for GREAT production. For me personally I am disappointed with his production. I like him. I liked the draft pick but he really is a middle of the road talent. I really thought the addition of Bosa would free him up. As for the inside stuff. I think because of his lack of production they are using him as an inside pocket pusher. Or perhaps he gets better leverage from a twist. Who knows.

I think that was a big part of why he was drafted when he was, because he had the experience inside.

As far as his production, it is pretty well in line with his salary. Salaries for pass rushers are always outrageous. But the alternative is to sit back and let QB pick you apart.

[Xenos]

Bottom line is he hasn't dominated. He has been good. Not great. He got paid for GREAT production. For me personally I am disappointed with his production. I like him. I liked the draft pick but he really is a middle of the road talent. I really thought the addition of Bosa would free him up. As for the inside stuff. I think because of his lack of production they are using him as an inside pocket pusher. Or perhaps he gets better leverage from a twist. Who knows.

I feel like you're too obsessed with sacks and stats. I think he was paid fairly for what he is and was.

This is a great breakdown by one of the best pass rushers. I recommend reading the entire thing.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2014/09/25/sa...ney-film-study

“I’m glad we’re doing this," said Freeney, walking into the defensive room with me recently. “People dissect what quarterbacks do and focus on how tough their job is—and it is. But rushing the passer is one of the toughest things to do in sports too. It’s good to let people know how it’s done."

“Not much you can do there. I pressured him, did my job, got him down. Some of my great games have been games where I haven’t gotten a sack. That’s just because sometimes they key on you. Sometimes a quarterback’s first read—he already knows what the coverage is gonna be, so he’s gonna kind of open up to make sure his tackle is okay. He’s ‘periphering’ me. He knows where I am at all times, and if I’m on top of him, he knows exactly where he’s going. Like here. Houston—they know me. I’ve been playing against these guys for so long.

“Affect the quarterback—that’s my mission. Make him think about something. Make him pump. Make him throw the ball a little quicker. Make him throw off his back leg. Let him know you’re there. Because you may not get the sack all the time, and the stat sheet may never show it, but if you ask the coordinator, offensive linemen and quarterback, they’ll tell you. It’s getting the timing of the route off. It’s the interception. What happened on that throw? Well, he was probably preoccupied with somebody at his feet, or he couldn’t follow through. That’s how you get the bad throws. He’s worried about things that aren’t really there. It’s all part of the game. That’s why I love what I do, because I don’t care what kind of receiver you have, I don’t care what kind of quarterback you have—if that offensive lineman can’t block, the neutralizer is a defensive lineman or outside backer.

“It’s not all about the sack. It’s a very misleading stat. I’ve always said it. I could get my ass kicked and get a sack. The game is watched from a different perspective, but not really from a defensive line versus offensive line perspective. The camera is always on the QB. It’s always on the high-profile stars. The dirty work—it takes a real student of the game to sit there and watch what’s going on. Do you have to dedicate two guys to block J.J. Watt? Well, they shut J.J. Watt out today! Did they really? Well, yeah, they did—they took two guys to freakin’ block him all damn game, but you best believe he had an impact on the game. They had to condense their game plan because of the way he plays."

[SuperCharged]

I feel like you're too obsessed with sacks and stats. I think he was paid fairly for what he is and was.

This is a great breakdown by one of the best pass rushers. I recommend reading the entire thing.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2014/09/25/sa...ney-film-study

I disagree completely. You think his level of play matched the $$$? I am not picking on him. But the #18 pick? With one big contract extension? I would like to see his position upgraded. I would like to see a younger player with a higher ceiling. We know Melvins ceiling is 10.5. just the truth, it's simply my opinion. In todays game it's best not to get emotionally attached to players. Look at you right now... What do you think about Derwin? We all love him to death. What happens (god forbid) if he goes out with injury another 10 games this season? Do the memories of Verrette come creeping in? The red flags would be definitely be up and it's microscope season for the 4th year.

[jubei]

sacks are nice but I do prefer a ton of pressure and hits...of which I believe he doesnt have a whole lot of. I'm perfectly fine with not extending MI.

[AK47]

Gotta lock up Bosa and later Derwin James. Murray is on his rookie contract. These 3 could be our future trio to anchor the defense for the next 5 years. I think we have some chance to retain MI considering he isn't a high sack guy but has chemistry with Bosa and other intangibles making him a sweet value. I think his ability to make tackles is underrated as well. That said as long as we have Bosa we can get away with an average pass rusher opposite him (not to say MI is average).

Said trio in place TT should start leveraging the draft and FA to find a starting CB and pass rusher.

[Xenos]

I disagree completely. You think his level of play matched the $$$? I am not picking on him. But the #18 pick? With one big contract extension? I would like to see his position upgraded. I would like to see a younger player with a higher ceiling. We know Melvins ceiling is 10.5. just the truth, it's simply my opinion. In todays game it's best not to get emotionally attached to players. Look at you right now... What do you think about Derwin? We all love him to death. What happens (god forbid) if he goes out with injury another 10 games this season? Do the memories of Verrette come creeping in? The red flags would be definitely be up and it's microscope season for the 4th year.

Thanks for proving my point about the stat thing. 10.5 is his ceiling? Really? Have you thought that maybe you're the one being emotional? Lol

[SuperCharged]

Thanks for proving my point about the stat thing. 10.5 is his ceiling? Really? Have you thought that maybe you're the one being emotional? Lol

:shock:??? Yes it is his ceiling obviously he can't eclipse it. He's 31 his best years are likely behind him. So yeah. Really... You really don't think so? Again I am just stating the obvious. We paid handsomely for average production at that position. He's a journeyman not a star. He should be paid as such, if the Chargers decide to offer him another contract. There's a pretty good chance that edge will be a high priority next draft.

[Xenos]

:shock:??? Yes it is his ceiling obviously he can't eclipse it. He's 31 his best years are likely behind him. So yeah. Really... You really don't think so? Again I am just stating the obvious. We paid handsomely for average production at that position. He's a journeyman not a star. He should be paid as such, if the Chargers decide to offer him another contract. There's a pretty good chance that edge will be a high priority next draft.

Yes, I think so. And no, given his age, I wouldn't resign him to the same major deal for the reason you stated. I think we paid him appropriately this past contract given his level of play and what he has done for us. I would ask you to stop caring so much about sacks and fancy stats, which is why I posted that Dwight Freeney article. But you seem set in your ways so I'll let it go.

[gzubeck]

Yes, I think so. And no, given his age, I wouldn't resign him to the same major deal for the reason you stated. I think we paid him appropriately this past contract given his level of play and what he has done for us. I would ask you to stop caring so much about sacks and fancy stats, which is why I posted that Dwight Freeney article. But you seem set in your ways so I'll let it go.

If your going to use sacks as a total measure you need to add in other variables such as pressures for QB, Yards after contact when tackling etc etc... sacks don't tell the whole story.

[SuperCharged]

Yes, I think so. And no, given his age, I wouldn't resign him to the same major deal for the reason you stated. I think we paid him appropriately this past contract given his level of play and what he has done for us. I would ask you to stop caring so much about sacks and fancy stats, which is why I posted that Dwight Freeney article. But you seem set in your ways so I'll let it go.

Dude I am not just sacks or "fancy" stats. Question: Stats are followed and have always been followed for what purpose? If they are not important why keep them? His primary job is getting to or pressuring the QB that is what he was drafted for. Again, all I am saying is that would be what I consider our weakest spot on D. I'm sure you have your opinion on what yours is. :beer:

[jubei]

again I say sacks are nice. but constant pressure is even better IMO. but does mi get constant pressure? i think not. and I have seen more than a couple of plays where he just flat stood there doing nothing, like he was more interested in listening to music than giving chase. IIRC he DID have a nice PO game against the ravens. but he's just so quiet for long stretches of time. Bosa may not get a ton of sacks but that boy is in the face of the qb a lot.

[Xenos]

again I say sacks are nice. but constant pressure is even better IMO. but does mi get constant pressure? i think not. and I have seen more than a couple of plays where he just flat stood there doing nothing, like he was more interested in listening to music than giving chase. IIRC he DID have a nice PO game against the ravens. but he's just so quiet for long stretches of time. Bosa may not get a ton of sacks but that boy is in the face of the qb a lot.

Anyone have a PFF subscription lol? It seems that we need some analytics on pressure and hurries.