2021 Official Chargers Season Discusssion

[like54ninjas]

Here's TT's draft record on D-line:

2013 - Round 6 - Tourek Williams - BUST
2014 - Round 5 - Ryan Carrethers - BUST
2015 - Round 6 - Darius Philon - productive in rotation--not a bad pick for late-rounder
2016 - Round 1 - Joey Bosa - ELITE PICK, but then, he was high on just about everyone's board
2017 - Round 7 - Isaac Rochell - Showed some flashes in the rotation--5 sacks in 2018--not a bad late round pick
2018 - Round 3 - Justin Jones - Developing into at least a serviceable run-defender, when healthy
2019 - Round 1 - Jerry Tillery - BUST
2019 - Round 7 - Cortez Broughton - BUST
2020 - NO D-LINE SELECTED AT ALL!
2021 - Round 4 - Chris Rumph - Could develop into decent rotational pass rusher

Now, when I call a late-rounder a "bust," I mean they were either mostly unproductive or didn't last long with the team. We can draw the following conclusions from TT's D-line draft history:

1. TT drafts a LOT of late round D-line players. And when he does, they're usually a "BUST."
2. In round 1, he is 1/2. Bosa was a can't miss player. Tillery was a reach and a bust.
3. The only mid-rounders he has drafted are Jones and Rumph. Both seem to be promising.
4. By the 2020 draft, TT already had a year to evaluate Tillery--it was evident he wasn't progressing all that well...TT chose NOT to draft any D-line that year, especially a DT as a hedge in case Tillery totally BUSTED...BIG MISTAKE!

CONCLUSION: TT needs to draft at LEAST more mid-round D-line players. An occasional 1st or 2nd rounder, depending on slotting, also needs to be strongly considered. Finally, TT needs to trade for at least ONE solid run-stuffer, especially someone on the last year of his contract, asap. Other GM's do this...why not u, TT?

No prospect that was taken past pick 75 or certainly past pick 100 can be labeled BUST.

We also had SupaMel and Liuget on the team through at least 2018.
We’ve consistently had at least 2 - 1st round picks on our defensive front 4/5.
I had Broughton graded much higher than draft position and disappointed he didn’t pan out as a day 3 steal.
Tillery is the only reach/potential BUST that I think we’ve made on this draft front.
I vote for pursing both UFA and the draft in 2022 to upgrade our talent not to make desperation moves that rarely pan out.

[Bolt4Knob]

No prospect that was taken past pick 75 or certainly past pick 100 can be labeled BUST.

We also had SupaMel and Liuget on the team through at least 2018.
We’ve consistently had at least 2 - 1st round picks on our defensive front 4/5.
I had Broughton graded much higher than draft position and disappointed he didn’t pan out as a day 3 steal.
Tillery is the only reach/potential BUST that I think we’ve made on this draft front.
I vote for pursing both UFA and the draft in 2022 to upgrade our talent not to make desperation moves that rarely pan out.

AJ drafted both SupaMel and Liuget - for sure LIuget as the cab driver in San Diego told Berman

I agree about your last statement but if you are a team like the Giants or Fish and they put Lawrence or Wilkins on the trade block - do you listen to what they want?

I mean guys like Hicks, Shelton, even Short and Atkins - are 11 game players. Be nice to get a player for a few years. Not wouldn't give up a 1st but a 2nd for the right IDL that would be around 2+ years - for sure.

[like54ninjas]

AJ drafted both SupaMel and Liuget - for sure LIuget as the cab driver in San Diego told Berman

I agree about your last statement but if you are a team like the Giants or Fish and they put Lawrence or Wilkins on the trade block - do you listen to what they want?

I mean guys like Hicks, Shelton, even Short and Atkins - are 11 game players. Be nice to get a player for a few years. Not wouldn't give up a 1st but a 2nd for the right IDL that would be around 2+ years - for sure.

Lawerence and Wilkins are both young difference makers. I’d be interested if they were available for trade but unlikely to happen.
The other 4 older declining vets, I have no real interest in. They are what they are now and that isn’t what I’d be looking to acquire.
Save the money and use the roll over on 2022 UFA like Harrison Phillips, BJ Hill, Derrick Nnadi, etc.

[Bearded14YourPleasure]

Change of defensive scheme usually leads to new players along the defensive front, however TT had to decide between spending FA dollars and draft capital on either the offensive or defensive front this last off season. He obviously made the correct call in focusing on the OL and protecting Herbert. 6th or 7th round picks I’m ok with trading for a DL, maybe a 4th or 5th if it’s a younger guy like Lawrence or Wilkins as previously mentioned, but if the right deal isn’t there then wait till next offseason. We are 4-2 with one of the easiest remaining schedules in the league, we absolutely can make the playoffs with the roster as it is especially with JJ and Murray hopefully coming back after the bye week. To me this season isn’t one that we need to mortgage the future on, I always looked at this as a cornerstone season for building our dynasty on. Coaching staff is still coming together and building their complete roster, players are still learning new systems and developing as players, culture is still changing.

[Bolt4Knob]

Lawerence and Wilkins are both young difference makers. I’d be interested if they were available for trade but unlikely to happen.
The other 4 older declining vets, I have no real interest in. They are what they are now and that isn’t what I’d be looking to acquire.
Save the money and use the roll over on 2022 UFA like Harrison Phillips, BJ Hill, Derrick Nnadi, etc.

The cost really isn't that much for guys like Atkins and Short - they are unemployed plus if you pay them, you are not paying Merrill or Fehoko

Second, I am not ready to give up on this season so if the Chargers can use $5-6m of cap space, this year and improve the DL - why not. Might not even cost 5-6m. Sheldon Rankins, Danny Shelton - not making anything

And lastly, the cap is an exaggeration - especially in the offseason . There is always money to be found.

[like54ninjas]

The cost really isn't that much for guys like Atkins and Short - they are unemployed plus if you pay them, you are not paying Merrill or Fehoko

Second, I am not ready to give up on this season so if the Chargers can use $5-6m of cap space, this year and improve the DL - why not. Might not even cost 5-6m. Sheldon Rankins, Danny Shelton - not making anything

And lastly, the cap is an exaggeration - especially in the offseason . There is always money to be found.

Agree that the Cap is always flexible if your ownership has deep pockets. Ours’ unfortunately do not.
You’re right that most of those older vets wouldn’t be cost prohibitive but at developmental cost to the young guys playing, seeing what we need going forward, or working through coaching/system changes.

No one should be giving up on the season!
We are 4-2 with a bye, a rapidly ascending super star @QB, astute young coaching staff, injured players coming back soon, advantageous schedule, scheme/technique works in progress, and a building team culture.
We are building a playoff team as this season progresses. We will be playing our best ball last 6 games.
SuperBowl caliber? If everything fell perfectly with a scorching hot run to end it? Yes
I think 2022 or 2023 season will be the first of multiple SuperBowl victories this decade for our beloved Bolts. Our Cap situation, draft pick allotments, young key player personnel on roster (QB, OLT, EDGE, DB, ILB, WR), bright young coaching staff, etc all seem to be coming together for long term sustainable success.

[ChargersPowderBlue]

I disagree about Tillery being a bust or potential one. He was instrumental in the win at KC. He is the only one on the IDL who can get to the QB at a high clip. The other IDL don't display the pass rush that he does.

[Boltjolt]

Here's TT's draft record on D-line:

2013 - Round 6 - Tourek Williams - BUST
2014 - Round 5 - Ryan Carrethers - BUST
2015 - Round 6 - Darius Philon - productive in rotation--not a bad pick for late-rounder
2016 - Round 1 - Joey Bosa - ELITE PICK, but then, he was high on just about everyone's board
2017 - Round 7 - Isaac Rochell - Showed some flashes in the rotation--5 sacks in 2018--not a bad late round pick
2018 - Round 3 - Justin Jones - Developing into at least a serviceable run-defender, when healthy
2019 - Round 1 - Jerry Tillery - BUST
2019 - Round 7 - Cortez Broughton - BUST
2020 - NO D-LINE SELECTED AT ALL!
2021 - Round 4 - Chris Rumph - Could develop into decent rotational pass rusher

Now, when I call a late-rounder a "bust," I mean they were either mostly unproductive or didn't last long with the team. We can draw the following conclusions from TT's D-line draft history:

1. TT drafts a LOT of late round D-line players. And when he does, they're usually a "BUST."
2. In round 1, he is 1/2. Bosa was a can't miss player. Tillery was a reach and a bust.
3. The only mid-rounders he has drafted are Jones and Rumph. Both seem to be promising.
4. By the 2020 draft, TT already had a year to evaluate Tillery--it was evident he wasn't progressing all that well...TT chose NOT to draft any D-line that year, especially a DT as a hedge in case Tillery totally BUSTED...BIG MISTAKE!

CONCLUSION: TT needs to draft at LEAST more mid-round D-line players. An occasional 1st or 2nd rounder, depending on slotting, also needs to be strongly considered. Finally, TT needs to trade for at least ONE solid run-stuffer, especially someone on the last year of his contract, asap. Other GM's do this...why not u, TT?

Calling 5th, 6th and 7th rounders busts is a stretch. When we hit on one of those picks we call it a good find.
I know the topic is DL but late rounders in general don't have big success rates.

They all didn't work out which ill agree but how many late rounders do? Justin Jackson was a good pick but as we know his problem is staying healthy for 2 games in a row lol.
We have been pretty good with UDFAs but we bring in like 20 every year and 1 maybe 2 make the team every year and they may or may not stick after year 1.

Think about that. We have one of the best track records with UDFAs with every team having roughly 20 every year. So missing on your three late round guys isn't some tragedy. We aren't worse than other teams there

Some of them stick for us and play often.

[Bolt4Knob]

Agree that the Cap is always flexible if your ownership has deep pockets. Ours’ unfortunately do not.
You’re right that most of those older vets wouldn’t be cost prohibitive but at developmental cost to the young guys playing, seeing what we need going forward, or working through coaching/system changes.

No one should be giving up on the season!
We are 4-2 with a bye, a rapidly ascending super star @QB, astute young coaching staff, injured players coming back soon, advantageous schedule, scheme/technique works in progress, and a building team culture.
We are building a playoff team as this season progresses. We will be playing our best ball last 6 games.
SuperBowl caliber? If everything fell perfectly with a scorching hot run to end it? Yes
I think 2022 or 2023 season will be the first of multiple SuperBowl victories this decade for our beloved Bolts. Our Cap situation, draft pick allotments, young key player personnel on roster (QB, OLT, EDGE, DB, ILB, WR), bright young coaching staff, etc all seem to be coming together for long term sustainable success.

my tweaks are minor and low cost -- unless the right long term fit (wilkins, lawrence) comes along

and really, my bar is low - its just about being better than now - not all pro

[chargeroo]

Agree that the Cap is always flexible if your ownership has deep pockets. Ours’ unfortunately do not.
You’re right that most of those older vets wouldn’t be cost prohibitive but at developmental cost to the young guys playing, seeing what we need going forward, or working through coaching/system changes.

No one should be giving up on the season!
We are 4-2 with a bye, a rapidly ascending super star @QB, astute young coaching staff, injured players coming back soon, advantageous schedule, scheme/technique works in progress, and a building team culture.
We are building a playoff team as this season progresses. We will be playing our best ball last 6 games.
SuperBowl caliber? If everything fell perfectly with a scorching hot run to end it? Yes
I think 2022 or 2023 season will be the first of multiple SuperBowl victories this decade for our beloved Bolts. Our Cap situation, draft pick allotments, young key player personnel on roster (QB, OLT, EDGE, DB, ILB, WR), bright young coaching staff, etc all seem to be coming together for long term sustainable success.

Post of the week! No panic button for Ninja!

Nice to read a positive post in a week when many are crying.

[Boltjolt]

AJ drafted both SupaMel and Liuget - for sure LIuget as the cab driver in San Diego told Berman

I agree about your last statement but if you are a team like the Giants or Fish and they put Lawrence or Wilkins on the trade block - do you listen to what they want?

I mean guys like Hicks, Shelton, even Short and Atkins - are 11 game players. Be nice to get a player for a few years. Not wouldn't give up a 1st but a 2nd for the right IDL that would be around 2+ years - for sure.

At one point I loved Geno Atkins but he is older now. I'd pass unless he is vet min cheap. Just not sure how much gas he has left in the tank.
Not interested in Sheldon either young or old lol. He has been very mediocre for his draft status. Below average actually

[BoltUp InLA]

I disagree about Tillery being a bust or potential one. He was instrumental in the win at KC. He is the only one on the IDL who can get to the QB at a high clip. The other IDL don't display the pass rush that he does.

I thought that Tillery had good pass rush skills until I saw a plotted graph of pressures from DTs in the NFL up through week 5. Not only did Tillery rank low on that list, but he was going up against mostly single blocking. I don’t know what to make of Tillery now.