Welcome Josh Palmer, WR, Tennessee (Pick #77)

[Bolt Dude]

He's a Gunner too.
Along with Facyson, Campbell.
Big, athletic, hungry dudes.

We gotta figure out these final roster spots.
No more schlubs.

I'll start.
Gimme
Jason Moore over KJ.
Bradwell over Kelley.

My thoughts exactly.

I do wish Ryan Smith a speedy recovery. After all, we brought him in specifically to be a gunner. Until then, I think Palmer, Campbell, Facyson, Webb, or Hall could work. Also think Tranq will be covering punts. It’s one of his superpowers.

[Bolt Dude]

Meanwhile, Ja’Maar Chase is trying to figure out how to catch a football in practice and during games. No bueno for a top 10 first round pick. I rather have a third round pick with this problem.

Ja’Mar Chase has more to worry about than catching balls these days.

https://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/2021/08/jamarr-chase-domestic-violence/

[Bearded14YourPleasure]

This is exactly what I am talking about when I stated that Palmer is overhyped. In Ramirez's article, he praises Palmer for getting open on the TD last Sunday against the 49ers.

But the only reason why Palmer was open was because Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, who had Palmer covered on the play, inexplicably decided to leave him and run toward Stick even though other defenders were converging on Stick, leaving Palmer wide open. Palmer did not get wide open. He was left wide open. Here is a video of the play in question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSEXgQibq2A

Even Fouts is over the top with his praise of Palmer on the broadcast, actually comparing the play to The Catch by Dwight Clark. The overhyping of Palmer is ridiculous.

Could we please get a reality check here?

You’re right in that Palmer didn’t do anything than just stay in the back of the end zone, however in that situation that’s the exact right thing to do. He’s in the back corner of the end zone to the side that Stick is running too, what is he supposed to do run away from the QB and make him throw back across his body and the width of the field while running? Worst case scenario Stick throws a jump ball there to give Palmer a chance to make a play and it goes out the back of the end zone. Is it a spectacular play by Palmer? No. Is it the correct play? Absolutely. Some of the praise is over the top for sure but that’s always the case in preseason, it’s all about getting everyone hyped up for the return of football.

[TexanBeerlover]

Ja’Mar Chase has more to worry about than catching balls these days.

https://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/202...stic-violence/

If Palmer had these issues some would be calling him a wasted pick :whistlin:

[Steve]

2 things

1). I have been contributing to this board (or similar ones) since the late 1990's. Every single training camp, there is one or more guys who looks like they came out of no where and was looking great, only to have all but 1 or 2 disappear and not do much of anything once the season starts. It happens alot.

2). Palmer was not well loved by the analytics crowd because of his lack of production. This is the same line of thinking as those that said Roger Craig and LT would never be effective receivers, because they didn't have the stats, and that proved it. Forgetting of course that Nebraska and TCU didn't throw to their RB. So, Craig and LT are two of the most successful pass catching RB of all time (both had over 100 catches in a single season). Palmer had a poor college career because he had QB would couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat. In the long term, this may help Palmer, because it has forced him to work really hard on his craft.

The only way we will know for sure how Palmer is going to do is when he does it.

The biggest obstacle may be his teammates, since we have a lot of good pass catchers, and there are only so many balls to go around.

In his favor are the fact that the Lombardi/NO Saints style of O makes a very deliberate effort to spread the ball around to a lot of receivers and get as many weapons involved.

We have 2 guys who have been high volume pass catchers in Ekeler and Keenan, and one medium volume guy in Cook.

Someone else needs to step up, and it could be Palmer, or Mike Williams or Johnson or Guyton or even McKitty or even Jason Moore. Time will tell.

[AK47]

I was not a happy camper when Chargers selected WR position 3rd rd.

Initially, I was more of a curious camper until I saw some Senior Bowl stuff. Read how he went up against NFL drafted CBs and did well. Then I looked at his stats. So we got a low production WR with above average skillsets to build upon.

Then it dawned on me. He was an unknown Canadian high school recruit playing in a system with sorry QB play resulting in low TDs. He doesn't play for an SEC team and he doesn't run a sub 4.4 time. There's no way he's gonna be a 2nd round let alone 1st round pick. His Senior Bowl/practice tape allowed him to garner 3rd round look at the highest but realistically mid-4th and later.

That said what if he had 7TDs playing in the SEC? Where would his stock be?

[equivocation]

Tennessee is an SEC school which is why they play so many SEC schools and Palmer has so much tape vs SEC CBs.

[DragonIce]

Palmer was not well loved by the analytics crowd because of his lack of production. This is the same line of thinking as those that said Roger Craig and LT would never be effective receivers, because they didn't have the stats, and that proved it.

With all respect it was an analytics crowd who loved him most. PFF championed the guy. There is no analytics person worth a penny who doesn't understand numeric context...it goes with the training. Analytics folks are the least impressed by simplistic counting stats.

For example:
Alabama runner gets 1,000 yards rushing.
Analytics guy: yawn. Wants to know things like yards per play after contact, receiving rate, YAC, strength of opposing schedule. Wants to also study physical traits, measurables and how those are expressed on film.


I did agree w/some of your other points.

[Panamamike]

Initially, I was more of a curious camper until I saw some Senior Bowl stuff. Read how he went up against NFL drafted CBs and did well. Then I looked at his stats. So we got a low production WR with above average skillsets to build upon.

Then it dawned on me. He was an unknown Canadian high school recruit playing in a system with sorry QB play resulting in low TDs. He doesn't play for an SEC team and he doesn't run a sub 4.4 time. There's no way he's gonna be a 2nd round let alone 1st round pick. His Senior Bowl/practice tape allowed him to garner 3rd round look at the highest but realistically mid-4th and later.

That said what if he had 7TDs playing in the SEC? Where would his stock be?

St Thomas Aquinas HS ... same team as ASJ.

[like54ninjas]

St Thomas Aquinas HS ... same team as ASJ.

Transferred to STA for his JR/SR years. First rep was against ASJ when he got there.

[Steve]

With all respect it was an analytics crowd who loved him most. PFF championed the guy. There is no analytics person worth a penny who doesn't understand numeric context...it goes with the training. Analytics folks are the least impressed by simplistic counting stats.

For example:
Alabama runner gets 1,000 yards rushing.
Analytics guy: yawn. Wants to know things like yards per play after contact, receiving rate, YAC, strength of opposing schedule. Wants to also study physical traits, measurables and how those are expressed on film.


I did agree w/some of your other points.

There are people into analytics that THINK they know about numeric context.

PFF may be TRYING to do a lot of analytics., It's too bad they fail miserably in a so much of it because of their poor experimental designs. They tend to leave a lot of biases into what they do, and can't seem to filter remove them when they crunch numbers. Their draft guides usually start with a lot of regular film study, then they use the "statistics", if you can even call many of them that, for support rather than illumination (like how drunks use lamp-posts).

Palmer was all scouted all over the place by a lot of different people. There were a lot of people who liked him, and a lot more who felt like we reached. Look hard enough, and you can find plenty of people with any approach that did/didn't like Palmer.

Anyone who worries too much about measurables is just begging to be wrong.

[FoutsFan]

This is exactly what I am talking about when I stated that Palmer is overhyped. In Ramirez's article, he praises Palmer for getting open on the TD last Sunday against the 49ers.

But the only reason why Palmer was open was because Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, who had Palmer covered on the play, inexplicably decided to leave him and run toward Stick even though other defenders were converging on Stick, leaving Palmer wide open. Palmer did not get wide open. He was left wide open. Here is a video of the play in question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSEXgQibq2A

Even Fouts is over the top with his praise of Palmer on the broadcast, actually comparing the play to The Catch by Dwight Clark. The overhyping of Palmer is ridiculous.

Could we please get a reality check here?

That is true indeed. If only Fouts knew as much about football, specifically the passing game as you do he would not hype Palmer as much.