Bolts (yawn) going with what they have?

[KNSD]

Coaches may know better, but they can't always say what they really think either. So as far as I know, their current opinion of Watt is the same as mine.

Nothing he did last year inspires confidence that he'll be a good NFL OC.

Watt, to me, is in the "must prove he is good" camp and not the "we're going to give him a pass until he proves us wrong" camp.

[Formula 21]

Coaches may know better, but they can't always say what they really think either. So as far as I know, their current opinion of Watt is the same as mine.

Nothing he did last year inspires confidence that he'll be a good NFL OC.

Watt, to me, is in the "must prove he is good" camp and not the "we're going to give him a pass until he proves us wrong" camp.

Everything I've seen about Watt says work ethic, so I expect him to come to camp ready to compete.

[SDFan]

Again, I still say based mostly on his footwork, and his leverage, Watt's best spot is probably C. A lot of college players end up not playing in their natural spots, especially the interior OL. You can hide a sub-caliber player at C, so the better guys often get put at OG, while some other guy plays C with 2 better players at C. A team like ND can always find someone OK to fill in as the 5th OL. Watt on the other hand can do either, and was a top interior OL, so playing him at OG makes more sense, especially with their ability to put him next to Zach Martin and get one really good side. The big issue Watt has had is making the line calls, IMHO. He had a tough time identifying fronts and often put himself in position to make blocks he wasn't ready (or couldn't) make.

Before everyone gets too down on Porkchop, I think he has had some moments. HE doesn't get enough credit that he played OK at his 2nd year. I think he has struggled some because he is a more natural power blocker and his footwork is much better on the left side then right. And right now, he is still the 2nd best OG we have (behind Franklin).

I know Coach D loves the flexibility thing, but at some point, younger players do need to master the skill set, and footwork is about as important as any part of being an OL as there is. Since it completely reverses when you switch sides, it is not a trivial exercise to pick up the switch in sides. I do agree, that OL need to learn the footwork on both sides, but I think allowing some of the younger ones the chance to pick up a position 1st is probably going to accelerate their development.

If we are going to target a player in the draft, the only 1st round prospect I really like is Cameron Erving (FSU). I like that he has played at a very high level at LT and C, and that is a combination that you NEVER see. HE could easily be a player who could play all 5 OL spots, and be pretty decent at all of them. He may also be the only 1st round OL who I think can start right off the bat. Most of the OT have horrible technique problems, and slowish feet to boot. I know that getting a RT to move Fluker inside is a popular idea, but I don't see a lot of options. Most of them just are playing too far forward and can be bull rushed. They had enough power and can move around some, so they aren't bad long term, just they need some cleanup.

There is the usual sort of inside RG and C types kicking around, just not the kind of players you want in the 1st round. But historically, you can find guys who can start later in the draft, as long as they play inside.

do you remember a couple years ago when Tyronne Green was the OG the team was excited about turning into a quality starter? Then in his 2nd year I believe he got extended starting time at LG next to Gaither and they closed out the season with 5-6 really solid games. Then the team re-signed Gaither, but chose to part ways with Green when he came in out of shape. Do you think Porkchops has had ANY games at OG (either side) as good as those last 5-6 Green played? To my untrained eyes, I don't think Porkchops has had a single game that compares to Green's end of that season. Tell me if I'm wrong. I thought he was barely adequate subbing for Rinehart 2 years ago- but expected him to make a leap under Coach D so last year he would be much better. Then they started him at RG and to me, he not only had not improved, but was a HUGE downgrade from Clary as a placeholder and seemed to regress instead of take it up a notch as a starter. I see no way we can go into another season with him as any more than an emergency back up or bubble cut guy. Saying he is our 2nd best OG is IMO Damning Praise and just shows how badly we need to find another stud starting OG someway/somehow. I liked what I saw out of Sirles much better and would keep him over Porkchops right now.

[6025]

Seems like Sirles was All-World for the last five minutes of the 49ers game.

[blueman]

Yep. Dude showed more in one game. than the Trout his entire time with us.

[6025]

Yeah, but he crashed down to Earth hard against KC. He's a development player at this point but yeah, I like him better than Porky.

[SDFan]

so maybe the bet-hedging talk from TT & MM about possibly moving Fluker inside means they will be looking for their top-rated RT AND RG each round of the draft and take whomever is the BPA as a likely starter? That way we solve the RG upgrade either way and Porkshits is an afterthought

[SDFan]

Yeah, but he crashed down to Earth hard against KC. He's a development player at this point but yeah, I like him better than Porky.

understandable since Sirles probably got no RG reps with starting O all the way until the very end of the season. Let's see how much he can improve with a full off season of OTAs and camps working with Coach D and maybe surprise us all as a legitimate guy to compete for a job.

[Mister Hoarse]

SF had a ton of injuries on D while KC had a monster D line. Big difference in the competition.

[blueman]

He still knew who to block and blocked him. He may be overmatched against better players, but yeah KC is a top D, so would expect struggles from most OL. Troutman looks like shit against everybody.

[Steve]

do you remember a couple years ago when Tyronne Green was the OG the team was excited about turning into a quality starter? Then in his 2nd year I believe he got extended starting time at LG next to Gaither and they closed out the season with 5-6 really solid games. Then the team re-signed Gaither, but chose to part ways with Green when he came in out of shape. Do you think Porkchops has had ANY games at OG (either side) as good as those last 5-6 Green played? To my untrained eyes, I don't think Porkchops has had a single game that compares to Green's end of that season. Tell me if I'm wrong. I thought he was barely adequate subbing for Rinehart 2 years ago- but expected him to make a leap under Coach D so last year he would be much better. Then they started him at RG and to me, he not only had not improved, but was a HUGE downgrade from Clary as a placeholder and seemed to regress instead of take it up a notch as a starter. I see no way we can go into another season with him as any more than an emergency back up or bubble cut guy. Saying he is our 2nd best OG is IMO Damning Praise and just shows how badly we need to find another stud starting OG someway/somehow. I liked what I saw out of Sirles much better and would keep him over Porkchops right now.

A lot of it depends on what you are looking for in an OG. Troutman has plays where he looks outstanding. When he pulls and leads, or pulls and traps, he can (and does) flatten guys. He has real highlight film stuff. But he also has trouble with his footwork so that he allows penetration and cannot sustain blocks. Green had some big games where he was pretty good overall, but never flashed as much ability as Porkchop has on his best plays.

my point with the 2nd best OG is not that he is great, or even adequate. I don't disagree with it being damning praise, but the fact is things can get a whole lot worse before they get better. I'm not suggesting we give Troutman a starting job, but he should be allowed to compete for it, because right now he is the best of some bad options.

The point is who else do we have? I'm not ready to give Sirles the nod, based on how little he played. It usually takes other teams a couple of games to see enough film to figure out how to attack younger players. I don't have a problem with Sirles getting a chance to win a job in TC, but to cut Troutman without at least giving him the competition is just plain nuts. And the same applies for any rookie we add.

The other thing that is just silly is the idea that 3rd year OG can't get better. Using the # of years is a poor way of indicating how much playing time a player gets. The number of reps a player gets is a far better indicator. A lot of young players develop quickly as starters, but they not only get the game time, but most of the practice reps too. Porkchop got no playing time as a rookie, and almost no practice time. He got a little playing time as a 2nd year player, and only some of the season got starters reps in practice. Last year, he finally got a bunch of reps in games and practice. Now we should finally get a good look at how far he develops.

I'm not suggesting we start the guy, but we aren't going to draft an entire draft class of OG types. Porkchop deserves a chance to win a starting job. But if his footwork doesn't improve, and he stops giving up inside penetration, then he may well not make it out of TC. But let these things play out on their own, rather then just stupidly cut the guy only to let some other team potentially reap the rewards.

We get to keep 80 guys into TC. You have to have a lot of players just to run camp. It is not going to hurt just to keep the best players possible just to raise the level of practice, even if it is among the 3rd team OL and the 3rd team DL. A lot of those guys have made the team in the past, so let it play out.

[oneinchpunch]

Is TT doing GM speak? Perhaps he is telling the truth on his goals. I'm not sure how far fetched it is to think that his biggest priorities were resigning Dunlap and Flowers, adding a guard, improving the return game, and finding replacements for Royal, Gilchrist and Wright. He can still get a RB and depth in the draft.

That sounds like a Super Bowl winner