Say it is so...

[MakoShark]

There appears to be more options now, but 2006, there was absolutely nothing.

There's options now because they generated those options. They could have done the same thing back in 06 if they chose to do so. There have been other opportunities in the past, from other groups and they could have jumped in with any of them and spearheaded a project, but they chose not to. They made an honest effort is SD, IMO.

[6025]

There's options now because they generated those options. They could have done the same thing back in 06 if they chose to do so. There have been other opportunities in the past, from other groups and they could have jumped in with any of them and spearheaded a project, but they chose not to. They made an honest effort is SD, IMO.

They could not have done that in 06 because the city literally had nothing to offer at the time. There was no real honest effort on both sides, there was only the desires of the Chargers to get a stadium done on the cheap, and the city's inability to satisfy that. Hence, they both share the blame for failures in the past.

[Mister Hoarse]

The city did make mistakes the past 20 years or so. The first one was to go to the Chargers and basically gift them the (admittedly horrendous) upgrade to Jack Murphy Stadium which included the ticket guarantee. There was no need at the time to make this offer, and had they held back perhaps a new stadium could have been built.

But the Chargers acted like smug assholes after that deal. The city realized they fucked up with the ticket guarantee but the Chargers wouldn't let them off the hook. "A deal is a deal" they said, laughing about it all along. Yes, the city did it to themselves, but the team hardly acted like a business partner there.

After the upgrades were done, The Padres made moves of their own and did the seemingly impossible - they got a stadium built, and downtown to boot. The Chargers, just four short years after being gifted with the upgrades to the Q while refusing to negotiate with the city over the ticket guarantee (a deal is a deal!), let it slip to the public that they too wanted a new stadium. They weren't visionary enough to seize the moment when they could have back in 1995, even with the ineptitude of the city.

For "14 years" the Chargers claim to have been jilted, but even with the shitty conditions at the Q they knew they had a very team-friendly deal (in terms of dollars), especially when they finally did renegotiate the ticket guarantee to allow them the out clause each February. A clause they haven't exercised because it's a bargain to them rent-wise.

And yes, the Chargers have been competitive in the 00's, but let's look at the situation as a whole. They had the golden goose all setup - a 14-2 record, a proven coach (albeit not in the playoffs), a GM who was making all the right moves, but it imploded in another GM-Coach feud. Just like it had after the last great era in the early 90s with Ross and Beathard. Spanos couldn't make Ross/Beathard work, and again he couldn't make Marty/AJ work. He was (and is) a weak owner who should've nipped that shit in the bud years earlier. You think the Rooneys, the Jerry Joneses, hell, even the Al Davis's would've put up with that bullshit? And what was the end solution to these bullshit issues? Kevin Gilbride and Norv Turner. We can't win because we don't have a winner at the top. Even when the cards are stacked in our favor we can't do it.

But the bottom line is all that shit is in the past. To use the "too late, you should've come to the table earlier" excuse is really just bullshit. The Chargers knew damn well the issues the city faced during the 00's with their financial situation, and it seemed to me they understood. Now that the time is right for the city, they play these stupid games and refuse to negotiate. It's clear they want LA but they only want it because of Kronke. Spanos has hardly been a victim in this thing, he orchestrated some of it too.

I've said all along that both sides should take blame for the stuff in the past, but it is in the past. What's important to me is the now. Now the time is right for this thing getting done here but the Chargers don't want to play ball. Which is ok but they do it in such a bullshit way with Fibs pulling all of his spin move stuff, it makes me sick. How anyone can condone these slimy maneuvers being pulled by the Chargers is beyond me, even if you want to blame the city 100% for the past.

Pretty much agree with everything here.

[Panamamike]

But the city can afford a 300MM dollar library, do a sneak around purchasing a 100MM government office building pushing it through at the last minute without proper DD (how much asbestos does that old dinosaur building have) and submit a multi billion dollar proposal to host the Olympics....another notorious money loser on a scale that makes NFL stadiums look like leasing a Yugo.

[Mister Hoarse]

How many Stadium Threads ya got mon?

[6025]

But the city can afford a 300MM dollar library, do a sneak around purchasing a 100MM government office building pushing it through at the last minute without proper DD (how much asbestos does that old dinosaur building have) and submit a multi billion dollar proposal to host the Olympics....another notorious money loser on a scale that makes NFL stadiums look like leasing a Yugo.

Not disputing all of that but maybe the City didn't want to cooperate with the Chargers because the Chargers refused to cooperate with them when the team had the city over a barrel during the ticket guarantee years?

Like I said, this sordid shit is all in the past. The Chargers are flat out lying when they say a deal in San Diego is first priority - that's ok with you?

[Panamamike]

Not disputing all of that but maybe the City didn't want to cooperate with the Chargers because the Chargers refused to cooperate with them when the team had the city over a barrel during the ticket guarantee years?

Like I said, this sordid shit is all in the past. The Chargers are flat out lying when they say a deal in San Diego is first priority - that's ok with you?

So now the city wants to cooperate at the 11th hour because they are pressured to....no threat from LA and they would not even be discussing a new stadium. Why doesn't the city then just admit that they dragged their collective feet for a long time out of spite, instead of the bullshit coming from their side now? I can just as easily say that this whole thing by the city is nothing but BS political cover as you can that SD is not the Chargers first priority. They appeared to have the funds for other things...as noted in my post. Look, I think it is damn shame things have gotten to this point, neither side has trust in the other, and the clock is ticking (on a time frame that has been accelerated by outside factors whether SD chooses to believe it or not). Had I been the owner, I would have already gotten a stadium elsewhere. I hope they stay, but I understand if they do not.

[6025]

So now the city wants to cooperate at the 11th hour because they are pressured to....no threat from LA and they would not even be discussing a new stadium. Why doesn't the city then just admit that they dragged their collective feet for a long time out of spite, instead of the bullshit coming from their side now? I can just as easily say that this whole thing by the city is nothing but BS political cover as you can that SD is not the Chargers first priority. They appeared to have the funds for other things...as noted in my post. Look, I think it is damn shame things have gotten to this point, neither side has trust in the other, and the clock is ticking (on a time frame that has been accelerated by outside factors whether SD chooses to believe it or not). Had I been the owner, I would have already gotten a stadium elsewhere. I hope they stay, but I understand if they do not.

So why the pressure then? Just declare your intentions and leave.

The Chargers told Faulconer there was no hurry in putting forth an offer. That's because they already planned to leave.

I do agree with you it's a damn shame. But at this point in time, the Chargers are the assholes in the equation. If they come to the table, negotiate in earnest and it comes out that the city is indeed trying to pull a fast one with an impossible deal from the Chargers perspective, I'd change my mind. But they won't even talk.

[TTK]

The city did make mistakes the past 20 years or so. The first one was to go to the Chargers and basically gift them the (admittedly horrendous) upgrade to Jack Murphy Stadium which included the ticket guarantee. There was no need at the time to make this offer, and had they held back perhaps a new stadium could have been built.

But the Chargers acted like smug assholes after that deal. The city realized they fucked up with the ticket guarantee but the Chargers wouldn't let them off the hook. "A deal is a deal" they said, laughing about it all along. Yes, the city did it to themselves, but the team hardly acted like a business partner there.

After the upgrades were done, The Padres made moves of their own and did the seemingly impossible - they got a stadium built, and downtown to boot. The Chargers, just four short years after being gifted with the upgrades to the Q while refusing to negotiate with the city over the ticket guarantee (a deal is a deal!), let it slip to the public that they too wanted a new stadium. They weren't visionary enough to seize the moment when they could have back in 1995, even with the ineptitude of the city.

For "14 years" the Chargers claim to have been jilted, but even with the shitty conditions at the Q they knew they had a very team-friendly deal (in terms of dollars), especially when they finally did renegotiate the ticket guarantee to allow them the out clause each February. A clause they haven't exercised because it's a bargain to them rent-wise.

And yes, the Chargers have been competitive in the 00's, but let's look at the situation as a whole. They had the golden goose all setup - a 14-2 record, a proven coach (albeit not in the playoffs), a GM who was making all the right moves, but it imploded in another GM-Coach feud. Just like it had after the last great era in the early 90s with Ross and Beathard. Spanos couldn't make Ross/Beathard work, and again he couldn't make Marty/AJ work. He was (and is) a weak owner who should've nipped that shit in the bud years earlier. You think the Rooneys, the Jerry Joneses, hell, even the Al Davis's would've put up with that bullshit? And what was the end solution to these bullshit issues? Kevin Gilbride and Norv Turner. We can't win because we don't have a winner at the top. Even when the cards are stacked in our favor we can't do it.

But the bottom line is all that shit is in the past. To use the "too late, you should've come to the table earlier" excuse is really just bullshit. The Chargers knew damn well the issues the city faced during the 00's with their financial situation, and it seemed to me they understood. Now that the time is right for the city, they play these stupid games and refuse to negotiate. It's clear they want LA but they only want it because of Kronke. Spanos has hardly been a victim in this thing, he orchestrated some of it too.

I've said all along that both sides should take blame for the stuff in the past, but it is in the past. What's important to me is the now. Now the time is right for this thing getting done here but the Chargers don't want to play ball. Which is ok but they do it in such a bullshit way with Fibs pulling all of his spin move stuff, it makes me sick. How anyone can condone these slimy maneuvers being pulled by the Chargers is beyond me, even if you want to blame the city 100% for the past.

Pretty much exactly how I feel except you explained it much better than I did.

[TTK]

The Chargers never really wanted Chula Vista. That was "political cover" if there ever was any.

And speaking of political cover, Faulconer could walk over to Chargers Park, drop his pants and take a dump on the font lawn and tell Spanos to GTFO. He'd still get re-elected next year.

[Panamamike]

The Chargers never really wanted Chula Vista. That was "political cover" if there ever was any.

And speaking of political cover, Faulconer could walk over to Chargers Park, drop his pants and take a dump on the font lawn and tell Spanos to GTFO. He'd still get re-elected next year.

Good thing rain would wash it away...if left to the city they would defer the maintenance cost until it fell apart by erosion. It would actually be a befitting monument for the dump that is that sad excuse for a professional stadium.

[Wheels]

The Chargers never really wanted Chula Vista. That was "political cover" if there ever was any.

And speaking of political cover, Faulconer could walk over to Chargers Park, drop his pants and take a dump on the font lawn and tell Spanos to GTFO. He'd still get re-elected next year.

That actually might help his chances.