Chargers @ Raiders Game Day Thread / Post Game Discussion (Wk 18)

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  • richpjr
    Registered Charger Fan
    • Jun 2013
    • 21198
    • Nashville
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    Originally posted by TTThunder View Post

    I felt the same way...

    Go Bolts!!!
    Popper doesn't:

    1. The conversation around Brandon Staley’s decision to take a timeout with 38 seconds remaining in overtime has been really confounding. I still do not understand what there is to critique. It became a buzz topic in the hours after the game, and as such, a lot of people chimed in with critical takes that were largely misinformed and not based on fact.

    This is what actually happened.

    With the score tied at 32, the Raiders took over at their own 25 with 4:30 remaining. The next score would win the game. Derek Carr completed a pass to Bryan Edwards for a 17-yard gain off play action on the first play. Carr then kept the possession alive two plays later by hitting Zay Jones on an out route on third-and-8. Asante Samuel Jr. was in coverage. I thought this was Carr’s best throw of the game. Jones clearly went out of bounds with 2:17 left. The clock continued to run, however, down to the two-minute warning. This appeared to be an error by the game clock operator. According to NFL rules, the clock should stop when a ball carrier goes out of bounds inside of five minutes in the fourth quarter or overtime. The only possible explanation is that the referees ruled Jones’ forward progress had been stopped. But I rewatched the TV copy and the game film, and neither official on that sideline signaled for the clock to run.

    I digress. This really did not have an impact on the final moments of the game.

    After the two-minute warning, the Raiders faced a first down from the Chargers’ 46-yard line. Josh Jacobs was tackled for a loss on a first-down handoff. The clock ran down to 1:22 before the next Raiders snap. Carr was in shotgun and handed off to Jacobs again. Jacobs bounced outside to the left and was tackled after a 7-yard gain with 1:14 left on the clock.

    The Raiders were at the Chargers’ 39-yard line and faced a third-and-4. The clock continued to run as the Raiders called a play, broke the huddle and lined up in shotgun formation. The play clock was winding down. The absolute latest the Raiders could have snapped the ball was with 33 seconds left on the clock. The whole idea that Las Vegas could have let time run out in the game is false. The play clock precluded their doing that. So the Chargers, effectively, needed to get a stop on third down to give themselves a chance. If they stopped the Raiders for no gain, it would have set up a potential 57-yard game-winning field goal. Do the Raiders actually attempt that, considering the high risk of a block on longer attempts? We will never know. But stopping a Raiders run on third-and-4 and then hoping they would let the clock run out was the Chargers’ most likely path to the postseason at that point. Both teams, of course, would have gotten into the playoffs with a tie.

    Staley had a nickel package — five defensive backs — on the field with two inside linebackers (Kyzir White and Kenneth Murray), two defensive linemen (Justin Jones and Jerry Tillery) and two edge rushers (Joey Bosa and Uchenna Nwosu). Knowing he needed a run stop in this situation, he called a timeout to get his best nickel run personnel grouping into the game. He took out Murray and brought on nose tackle Linval Joseph to bolster his front. Jacobs ran for a first down, and the rest is history. Staley took the timeout with six seconds remaining on the play clock.

    But the timeout did not change the Raiders’ overall strategy. They were very clearly going to run a third-down play before the timeout. They did not come to the line in victory formation to kneel out the clock. Carr was in shotgun. The Chargers’ playoff chances were going to come down to getting a stop on the play, and so Staley tried to put his defense in the best position to make that stop.

    That is all it was. And, frankly, it was, like, the 107th most interesting thing that happened in the game.

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    • richpjr
      Registered Charger Fan
      • Jun 2013
      • 21198
      • Nashville
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      Originally posted by TTThunder View Post

      That 4th down was reckless....

      The thing I liked about Herbert and Slater is that, they want to improve...

      Can we say that about Staley? (So far, I never see him thrown anyone under the bus. But some of his 4th down is too reckless and I am not sure he is aware of it...)

      Go Bolts!!!
      Was it reckless?

      Staley’s decision to go for it on fourth-and-1 from his own 18 down three points in the third quarter was obviously unorthodox and understandably jarring for some. I am, at least right now, not going to retread the analytics argument we seemingly have every week. I believe in the math and am confident it leads to a competitive advantage over the course of a season. If you think the math is a load of horse-you-know-what, fine. I do not feel like this is the time or place for me to try to convince you otherwise. The more instructive conversion, to me, is highlighting the why. Whether you like it or not, this is who the Chargers are. This is what they were all season. And this is what they will be as long as Staley is the head coach. Outside of a few isolated situations, Staley made decisions that align with the math all season long. And this decision, too, was backed by the math. Five win-probability models — EDJ Sports, ESPN, PFF, Ben Baldwin and Next Gen Stats — determined that the decision to go for it increased the Chargers’ win probability. EDJ Sports had it as an increase of 4.7 percentage points. Baldwin and Next Gen had it as 1.6 percentage points. PFF put the increase at 2.4 percentage points, and ESPN had it at 1.5.

      According to the EDJ Sports model, the Chargers had a 36 percent chance of winning the game if they punted, a 45 percent chance of winning if they converted and a 28 percent chance of winning if they failed to covert. The difference between converting and failing to convert was 17 percentage points. For this to be a go, the Chargers needed an expected conversion rate of at least 47.1 percent. If you multiply that expected conversion rate by the win probability difference of 17 percentage points, you get 8.007 percent. That puts the Chargers’ win probability at 36.007 percent (28 + 8.007), which is greater than the 36 percent win probability if the team punted. The Chargers’ chances of converting on the fourth-and-1 — which was really a little more than a yard — was 59 percent, according to EDJ Sports, well above the required 47.1 percent. The Chargers had converted nearly 80 percent of their second, third and fourth downs with 1 yard to gain on the season entering this game, according to TruMedia, which gives you an idea of how often this offense is successful in such situations. Mathematically, this was a sound decision.

      Comment

      • Cdn Bolt
        Registered Charger Fan
        • Jan 2019
        • 625
        • Ontario , Canada
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        Originally posted by richpjr View Post

        Popper doesn't:
        If you read what Popper says he contradicts himself. The Raiders lined up in a shotgun formation - a passing formation. So why did Staley need to get a run stuffer in? Popper also can't seem to add.

        It was 3rd down w 33 sec on the clock. They run the 3rd down play and the clock starts again and doesn't stop unless a pass is incomplete or the player gets out of bounds. If not, they could have run the rest of the clock out on 4th down (another 40 sec to run a play )

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        • powderblueboy
          Registered Charger Fan
          • Jul 2017
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          Keenan Allen was wide open over the middle at the 7 yard line on the last Charger offensive play in OT.

          Wide fucking open.

          Herbert missed him.
          Too many fade patterns to Mdub near the end zone

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          • powderblueboy
            Registered Charger Fan
            • Jul 2017
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            Originally posted by richpjr View Post

            Was it reckless?

            reckless....as in stupid, thoughtless, completely oblivious to common sense.

            Hope this helps.

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            • richpjr
              Registered Charger Fan
              • Jun 2013
              • 21198
              • Nashville
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              Originally posted by powderblueboy View Post

              reckless....as in stupid, thoughtless, completely oblivious to common sense.

              Hope this helps.
              M'kay. That pesky math though...

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              • Velo
                Ride!
                • Aug 2019
                • 11152
                • Everywhere
                • Leave the gun, take the cannolis
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                Steelers fans are donating to charities supported by the Raiders' kicker, Daniel Carlson, for making the kick that sent the Steelers to the playoffs. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ity-donations/

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                • jamrock
                  lawyers, guns and money
                  • Sep 2017
                  • 13247
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                  Originally posted by richpjr View Post

                  M'kay. That pesky math though...
                  It’s not a math problem tho.

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                  • Cdn Bolt
                    Registered Charger Fan
                    • Jan 2019
                    • 625
                    • Ontario , Canada
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                    Originally posted by powderblueboy View Post
                    Keenan Allen was wide open over the middle at the 7 yard line on the last Charger offensive play in OT.

                    Wide fucking open.

                    Herbert missed him.
                    Too many fade patterns to Mdub near the end zone
                    I just rewatched the game on the NFl network. They ran a fade play for the TD to win when we were on the LVR ~ 20, 3rd and 6. That series was almost all passes too. They should have been running more and going for 1st downs . Get to a 1st and goal series. Too much gambling. Settled for a field goal and then lost the game.

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                    • jamrock
                      lawyers, guns and money
                      • Sep 2017
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                      Originally posted by Cdn Bolt View Post

                      If you read what Popper says he contradicts himself. The Raiders lined up in a shotgun formation - a passing formation. So why did Staley need to get a run stuffer in? Popper also can't seem to add.

                      It was 3rd down w 33 sec on the clock. They run the 3rd down play and the clock starts again and doesn't stop unless a pass is incomplete or the player gets out of bounds. If not, they could have run the rest of the clock out on 4th down (another 40 sec to run a play )
                      They always run out of the shotgun

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                      • Caslon
                        Registered Charger Fan
                        • Apr 2019
                        • 3086
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                        Please ditch the all white with powder blue numbered uniforms next Charger season. Also, what were all blue “Power Rush” uniforms usually seen on Thursday night games doing in a couple of regular season games?

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                        • jamrock
                          lawyers, guns and money
                          • Sep 2017
                          • 13247
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                          Originally posted by richpjr View Post

                          Popper doesn't:
                          They really needed to stuff Jacobs on 2nd down. After Jones dropped him for. 1 yard loss on 1st down they picked up 7 on second down. If that had been 3rd and 9 instead of 3rd and 4 it could have been different . But they gave up 17 yards on the Raiders last 2 run plays. Run defense killed the season. Was a problem all year and never fixed. That’s your defensive genius

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