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Hire New DC and Replace Hill? (was Vic Fangio, Wink Martindale)

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  • Originally posted by Critty View Post
    Play calling can NOT overcome talent issue.

    Think about it like this.....
    The defense or offense you're playing is in a certain personnel packages and formations and a good call to attack or counter attack is Play A or Play B with options and adjustments.

    Then at the snap everyone is trying to execute their assignments and someone gets beat and the play goes nowhere or someone gets beat and it's a big gain. And it was literally a great call vs what the opponent was trying to do. But at face value it look like a crap play call. But as a OC or DC you got the exact look you want and attacked with call that works when executed.

    You want your full playbook at your disposal and it happens when the roster is better and can actually execute the full play book consistently.

    If you think this roster is plenty talented enough to execute the full playbook with few execution errors. Then you would look at the coaches as failing to put them in position to win.

    But I have seen it. I'm seeing some talent issues that are making execution difficult at times.

    The players with physical limitations as to how good they can be have to be upgraded. The great athletic players who are making mental mistakes need to start making progress with awareness and understanding so they can eliminate those mental errors and play consistent football or they need to be upgraded as well.

    Staley shows great teaching skills so I would think he is giving them all the information they need to be mentally prepared to execute the plays. I want to see how his defense performance looks if they can add a lockdown CB1 to the roster.
    ^ This. We need QUALITY defensive starters AND depth...

    Comment


    • Overall, I'm so confused on Staley. I truly LOVE his attitude and his acumen. He's whip-smart and knows how to connect with his players. He's had some success in his very short coaching tenure before coming to the Chargers. And every time he talks, I am fired up.

      However, we brought him in to take our defense up to the next level (yes, also to win games and improve Herbert, but defense was at the top on his resume).

      Well, he didn't deliver.

      His defense sucked. No doubt about. And he had Derwin for most of the year. There were some bright moments. But, over the course of the season, the stats clearly show we were one of the worst defenses in the league. A Brandon Staley led defense was near the bottom. Awful.

      Some people say, "Oh, it's the players. That falls on Telesco." Okay. Sure. But whenever I say I'm not a huge fan of Lombardi and his scheme, I'm reminded of the stats and how well our offense did. To which I reply, okay, isn't it the players? I mean, in all honesty, isn't much of that Herbert? The Raider game showed this to be true. All our scheming got us was a ton of 3rd/4th and longs. And Herbert, being superman, got the job done. Consistently overcoming the junk that preceded it.

      My point is for those who like Lombardi because our offense was statistically really good, then you have to equally not like Staley because his defensive schemes were, statistically, really bad. If it's the players (and I realize it's a combination of the two at some level) then we can go back to speaking against Lombardi and not having the stats thrown at us?

      Anyway, my biggest beef with Staley is what we've been saying about Charger coaches for years. Why isn't he coaching/scheming to the players we HAVE? Is this just another Charger coach who has HIS scheme and tries to fit round pegs into square holes? Belichick is awesome because, week in and week out, the guy trains his men in a defense designed for their team's strengths and against his opponent's weaknesses.

      Or even the now-fired Flores, whose Dolphins stunned Baltimore earlier this season by throwing a whole bunch of cover 0 at them. He schemed specifically against the opponent that week. Heck, even Gus schemed differently that one season in the playoffs against the Ravens when we had some injuries. He deployed a ton of DBs and totally shut down the high-powered offense they had at the time.

      Why hasn't Staley seemed to mix things up and rework schemes more obviously to fit what we do have and against what the opponent doesn't have? Maybe he has and I'm just not seeing it.

      But something tells me we could have gotten the same record or better with Daboll as coach. At least the same stat results on D as we got this year (amazing to consider) and possibly an even more innovative offensive scheme for our superhero QB.

      Signed,
      Confused on Staley

      Comment


      • Originally posted by BayAreaBoltz View Post
        Overall, I'm so confused on Staley. I truly LOVE his attitude and his acumen. He's whip-smart and knows how to connect with his players. He's had some success in his very short coaching tenure before coming to the Chargers. And every time he talks, I am fired up.

        However, we brought him in to take our defense up to the next level (yes, also to win games and improve Herbert, but defense was at the top on his resume).

        Well, he didn't deliver.

        His defense sucked. No doubt about. And he had Derwin for most of the year. There were some bright moments. But, over the course of the season, the stats clearly show we were one of the worst defenses in the league. A Brandon Staley led defense was near the bottom. Awful.

        Some people say, "Oh, it's the players. That falls on Telesco." Okay. Sure. But whenever I say I'm not a huge fan of Lombardi and his scheme, I'm reminded of the stats and how well our offense did. To which I reply, okay, isn't it the players? I mean, in all honesty, isn't much of that Herbert? The Raider game showed this to be true. All our scheming got us was a ton of 3rd/4th and longs. And Herbert, being superman, got the job done. Consistently overcoming the junk that preceded it.

        My point is for those who like Lombardi because our offense was statistically really good, then you have to equally not like Staley because his defensive schemes were, statistically, really bad. If it's the players (and I realize it's a combination of the two at some level) then we can go back to speaking against Lombardi and not having the stats thrown at us?

        Anyway, my biggest beef with Staley is what we've been saying about Charger coaches for years. Why isn't he coaching/scheming to the players we HAVE? Is this just another Charger coach who has HIS scheme and tries to fit round pegs into square holes? Belichick is awesome because, week in and week out, the guy trains his men in a defense designed for their team's strengths and against his opponent's weaknesses.

        Or even the now-fired Flores, whose Dolphins stunned Baltimore earlier this season by throwing a whole bunch of cover 0 at them. He schemed specifically against the opponent that week. Heck, even Gus schemed differently that one season in the playoffs against the Ravens when we had some injuries. He deployed a ton of DBs and totally shut down the high-powered offense they had at the time.

        Why hasn't Staley seemed to mix things up and rework schemes more obviously to fit what we do have and against what the opponent doesn't have? Maybe he has and I'm just not seeing it.

        But something tells me we could have gotten the same record or better with Daboll as coach. At least the same stat results on D as we got this year (amazing to consider) and possibly an even more innovative offensive scheme for our superhero QB.

        Signed,
        Confused on Staley
        This is a fair criticism of Staley. If he doesn't have his players - yet - implement a system for the players you do have.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by BayAreaBoltz View Post
          Overall, I'm so confused on Staley. I truly LOVE his attitude and his acumen. He's whip-smart and knows how to connect with his players. He's had some success in his very short coaching tenure before coming to the Chargers. And every time he talks, I am fired up.

          However, we brought him in to take our defense up to the next level (yes, also to win games and improve Herbert, but defense was at the top on his resume).

          Well, he didn't deliver.

          His defense sucked. No doubt about. And he had Derwin for most of the year. There were some bright moments. But, over the course of the season, the stats clearly show we were one of the worst defenses in the league. A Brandon Staley led defense was near the bottom. Awful.

          Some people say, "Oh, it's the players. That falls on Telesco." Okay. Sure. But whenever I say I'm not a huge fan of Lombardi and his scheme, I'm reminded of the stats and how well our offense did. To which I reply, okay, isn't it the players? I mean, in all honesty, isn't much of that Herbert? The Raider game showed this to be true. All our scheming got us was a ton of 3rd/4th and longs. And Herbert, being superman, got the job done. Consistently overcoming the junk that preceded it.

          My point is for those who like Lombardi because our offense was statistically really good, then you have to equally not like Staley because his defensive schemes were, statistically, really bad. If it's the players (and I realize it's a combination of the two at some level) then we can go back to speaking against Lombardi and not having the stats thrown at us?

          Anyway, my biggest beef with Staley is what we've been saying about Charger coaches for years. Why isn't he coaching/scheming to the players we HAVE? Is this just another Charger coach who has HIS scheme and tries to fit round pegs into square holes? Belichick is awesome because, week in and week out, the guy trains his men in a defense designed for their team's strengths and against his opponent's weaknesses.

          Or even the now-fired Flores, whose Dolphins stunned Baltimore earlier this season by throwing a whole bunch of cover 0 at them. He schemed specifically against the opponent that week. Heck, even Gus schemed differently that one season in the playoffs against the Ravens when we had some injuries. He deployed a ton of DBs and totally shut down the high-powered offense they had at the time.

          Why hasn't Staley seemed to mix things up and rework schemes more obviously to fit what we do have and against what the opponent doesn't have? Maybe he has and I'm just not seeing it.

          But something tells me we could have gotten the same record or better with Daboll as coach. At least the same stat results on D as we got this year (amazing to consider) and possibly an even more innovative offensive scheme for our superhero QB.

          Signed,
          Confused on Staley
          It is a confusing situation. Especially since certain players seem to get better under Staley like Justin Jones, Adderley, White, Uchenna, and even Tillery as a pass rusher. It just seems like it was never together collectively or consistently.

          Comment


          • Got a notification that he was let go by the Ravens.

            Comment


            • If the current DC isn't gone by now after 2 weeks, I highly doubt they hire anyone to replace him. Hill prepares the plan, Staley calls the plays.

              Then again.... Marty happened.

              Comment


              • We are a bottom 5 defense. Almost anybody would be an improvement and this guy is good. But there no chance with Staley. We’re stuck with him

                Comment


                • Very different defensive philosophies that probably can't be reconciled. Martindale is aggressive, and calls a lot of blitzes, Staley doesn't.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Rambler View Post
                    Very different defensive philosophies that probably can't be reconciled. Martindale is aggressive, and calls a lot of blitzes, Staley doesn't.
                    I agree with your take, but would rather have Martindale calling defensive plays than Staley.

                    I really like attacking defenses and believe that an attacking defensive philosophy would actually work better with our offense.

                    Martindale is a great DC and is getting scapegoated for Baltimore having so many key injuries. I honestly cannot believe that Baltimore fired him. Bad move.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by chaincrusher View Post

                      I agree with your take, but would rather have Martindale calling defensive plays than Staley.

                      I really like attacking defenses and believe that an attacking defensive philosophy would actually work better with our offense.

                      Martindale is a great DC and is getting scapegoated for Baltimore having so many key injuries. I honestly cannot believe that Baltimore fired him. Bad move.
                      And I agree with your take. Shocked that they let him go. Love the style he coaches

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by jubei View Post
                        Got a notification that he was let go by the Ravens.
                        Before their second game, Martindale implied that he wouldn’t double-team Chase, and that he didn’t see the Burrow-Chase tandem as a serious threat.


                        https://www.cincyjungle.com/2022/1/2...w-jamarr-chase


                        Bengals hung 41 on the Ravens. Twice.

                        Second, would Martindale come to a place where he wouldn't control the signal-calling on defense? That's Staley's gig and if Staley ain't giving up play-calling to land Vic Fangio, he ain't giving that up for nobody, IMO.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ghost View Post

                          Before their second game, Martindale implied that he wouldn’t double-team Chase, and that he didn’t see the Burrow-Chase tandem as a serious threat.


                          https://www.cincyjungle.com/2022/1/2...w-jamarr-chase


                          Bengals hung 41 on the Ravens. Twice.

                          Second, would Martindale come to a place where he wouldn't control the signal-calling on defense? That's Staley's gig and if Staley ain't giving up play-calling to land Vic Fangio, he ain't giving that up for nobody, IMO.
                          It is a really good thing that BAL did not double team Chase since Higgins had 12 catches for 194 yards and 2 TDs on 13 targets without even more defensive resources being committed to Chase.

                          And, Martindale was correct in his take on Burrow and Chase versus Rodgers and Adams.

                          BAL had lots of injuries this year, which automatically should have exempted Martindale from being fired.

                          In all of his other seasons, BAL was at the top of the league in both yards and points allowed.

                          BAL might have just fired the best DC in the NFL.

                          Comment

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