POLL: Will TT Pick Up Tillery's 5th Year Option?

[Guest]

Yes I have. If you’re going to make up scenarios about rushing on 3rd downs, then I need you to back it up for me with proof.

I am not making up anything. Tillery is a terrible run defender. His PFF run snap grades from 2019 to 2021 are 39.1, 37.8 and 45.6, respectively--just awful marks. While our DL players were not good against the run as a group, Tillery was the worst of them all and had the lowest run defending PFF grade of all of our DL players to back up that conclusion.

So yeah, the worst run defending DL player on a team that did not defend the run well just might be susceptible to the run when one of the interior DL players is pulled off the field on passing downs, maximizing his vulnerability.

[Xenos]

I am not making up anything. Tillery is a terrible run defender. His PFF run snap grades from 2019 to 2021 are 39.1, 37.8 and 45.6, respectively--just awful marks. While our DL players were not good against the run as a group, Tillery was the worst of them all and had the lowest run defending PFF grade of all of our DL players to back up that conclusion.

So yeah, the worst run defending DL player on a team that did not defend the run well just might be susceptible to the run when one of the interior DL players is pulled off the field on passing downs, maximizing his vulnerability.

Everyone knows that he’s horrible against the run. It doesn’t change the fact that you have no proof for what you said about teams running more on third and 5 or longer if he’s on the field as a pass rusher. Provide some actual proof or stop making things up.

[Guest]

Everyone knows that he’s horrible against the run. It doesn’t change the fact that you have no proof for what you said about teams running more on third and 5 or longer if he’s on the field as a pass rusher. Provide some actual proof or stop making things up.

1. You are misstating what I said. I said at post #72 that I have no confidence in Tillery that the opponent would not pop a 10+ yard run at any time with Tillery in the lineup. At post #81, I stated that the concern was that even on 3rd and 10, opponents can frequently and easily run at/through Tillery and gain 7-8+ yards, setting themselves for a possible for a 4th down attempt.

I have not made up anything. Where is your proof that I really have confidence in Tillery or that I do not have a concern that even on 3rd and 10 opponents can frequently and easily run at/through Tillery for 7-8+ yards? I am guessing you do not have any.

2. In the "duh" department, my lack of confidence and concern about Tillery being on the field even in a 3rd and 10 situation stems from the fact that he is a horrible run defender and the worst run defending DL player on our roster, a notion fully supported by PFF grades. My view is that in nickel/dime formations with a 4 man front with Tillery playing as an interior DL defender, he is particularly vulnerable to being driven off of the ball as there is one less DL player for the opposing offense to block.

[Xenos]

1. You are misstating what I said. I said at post #72 that I have no confidence in Tillery that the opponent would not pop a 10+ yard run at any time with Tillery in the lineup. At post #81, I stated that the concern was that even on 3rd and 10, opponents can frequently and easily run at/through Tillery and gain 7-8+ yards, setting themselves for a possible for a 4th down attempt.

I have not made up anything. Where is your proof that I really have confidence in Tillery or that I do not have a concern that even on 3rd and 10 opponents can frequently and easily run at/through Tillery for 7-8+ yards? I am guessing you do not have any.

2. In the "duh" department, my lack of confidence and concern about Tillery being on the field even in a 3rd and 10 situation stems from the fact that he is a horrible run defender and the worst run defending DL player on our roster, a notion fully supported by PFF grades. My view is that in nickel/dime formations with a 4 man front with Tillery playing as an interior DL defender, he is particularly vulnerable to being driven off of the ball as there is one less DL player for the opposing offense to block.

So you have no proof for your concerns, you don’t know what you’re talking about again, and making things up like you always do. Got it.

[Guest]

So you have no proof for your concerns, you don’t know what you’re talking about again, and making things up like you always do. Got it.

I do know exactly what I am talking about. However, in a tragic turn of events, you do not seem to understand the value of evidence when it is presented to you.

As for the basis for my concern, I have already cited that Tillery is our worst run defending DL, which I know because I have watched all of our games since Tillery entered the league and because PFF run defense grades supports what I thought I saw--that Tillery is the worst run defending DL player on our roster. And you have even admitted at post #86 that "everyone knows that he's horrible against the run."

So my concern that when we play our worst run defender in a defensive formation that is vulnerable against the run, teams just might be able to gash us frequently in the running game for bigger gains of 7-8+ yards at a time is clearly based in fact and reason. That much has already been explained to you.

Also, keep in mind that our run defense averaged 4.6 yards allowed per carry in all formations combined, including formations designed to be better at stopping the run than our 3rd and long defenses designed to stop the pass, such as our base and short yardage defenses.

[Xenos]

I do know exactly what I am talking about. However, in a tragic turn of events, you do not seem to understand the value of evidence when it is presented to you.

As for the basis for my concern, I have already cited that Tillery is our worst run defending DL, which I know because I have watched all of our games since Tillery entered the league and because PFF run defense grades supports what I thought I saw--that Tillery is the worst run defending DL player on our roster. And you have even admitted at post #86 that "everyone knows that he's horrible against the run."

So my concern that when we play our worst run defender in a defensive formation that is vulnerable against the run, teams just might be able to gash us frequently in the running game for bigger gains of 7-8+ yards at a time is clearly based in fact and reason. That much has already been explained to you.

Also, keep in mind that our run defense averaged 4.6 yards allowed per carry in all formations combined, including formations designed to be better at stopping the run than our 3rd and long defenses designed to stop the pass, such as our base and short yardage defenses.

Once again no proof of teams running on us on 3rd and 5+ when Tillery is on the field. The original argument was that Tillery should only be used on obvious passing downs since he’s our best DT pass rusher. You felt that it needed to be 10+ yards. While I know that would be absurd because most teams aren’t going to run on 3rd and 5+, because most HCs want to convert on 3rd downs. They’re going to go with their best passing plays unless they’re the rare team that still relies on a rushing attack like the Titans. And even then, a passing play is going to get you more yards than a running play. So your concern is kind of absurd as well.

So once again you’re either confused about what we’re talking about, or don’t know what you’re talking about like usual.

[Guest]

Once again no proof of teams running on us on 3rd and 5+ when Tillery is on the field. The original argument was that Tillery should only be used on obvious passing downs since he’s our best DT pass rusher. You felt that it needed to be 10+ yards. While I know that would be absurd because most teams aren’t going to run on 3rd and 5+, because most HCs want to convert on 3rd downs. They’re going to go with their best passing plays unless they’re the rare team that still relies on a rushing attack like the Titans. And even then, a passing play is going to get you more yards than a running play. So your concern is kind of absurd as well.

So once again you’re either confused about what we’re talking about, or don’t know what you’re talking about like usual.

I have never made a single comment about 3rd and 5. So if you are trying to ram my comments into that box, you have completely missed my entire discussion.

What I stated was that I would not be confident in putting Tillery in the game at all unless it was at least 3rd down and more than 10 yards to go. Tillery is such a run defending liability (as evidenced by PFF run defense grades over the past three seasons) that I would have no assurance that an opponent would not be able to rip off a 7-8+ yard run at any time, which would put the opponent in position to go for it potentially on 4th down.

This is based upon Tillery being a horrible run defender, which you have admitted, and our team being more susceptible to the run when in our nickel/dime packages. In terms of run defending, it is the worst of both worlds--the presence of Tillery, plus extra DBs and fewer DL players on the field. That defense screams "run at me".

We gave up 4.6 YPC against even counting base defense and short yardage formations, so we know it should be worse than that when run against in known passing situations. And that is an average, so there will be plenty of runs that will substantially exceed the average. Those are the runs I am talking about.

Tillery gives us very little as a pass rusher--like two more sacks than I would expect from a completely unskilled pass rushing DL player and he costs us a whole lot in that he is a liability against the run and he does not push the pocket. With Bosa and Mack, I would much rather have an interior DL player push the pocket so the QB could not step up into the pocket when Bosa and/or Mack arrive. I do not really care about a minor difference in sacks from an interior DL player. I would much rather have the pocket pusher as an interior DL pass rusher. That fits better with Bosa and Mack. I would think differently if the interior pass rusher collected a huge difference in the number of sacks generated (like Chris Jones), but that is not the case here with Tillery.

Also, I do not favor us having to rely on another team not figuring it out regarding our run defending liability in nickel/dime packages with Tillery. I do not favor creating a situation in which teams can run or pass against us on third down. Leave enough interior run defending on the field so that the opponent feels compelled to throw the ball, which is what the defense is designed to defend against anyway.

[AK47]

So once again you’re either confused about what we’re talking about, or don’t know what you’re talking about like usual.

This segment of The Powder Blues will return after this commercial break:

Jerry Tillery Highlights!!!!!

[powderblueboy]

This segment of The Powder Blues will return after this commercial break:

Jerry Tillery Highlights!!!!!

Awesome!

They were able to locate 1:25 seconds of Tillery dominating opponents during the 2020 season.

[powderblueboy]

For those who have just entered this thread:

Chaincrusher has expressed concern that teams will run on Tillery on passing downs; the inference being that the Chargers should never allow him to enter the game even then.

Xenos, countering, demanded that Chaincrusher furnish proof that teams actually have run successfully on the Chargers, with Tillery in the game,
on passing downs.

Chaincrusher, sensing a trap, pivoted skillfully away, employing his tried and true method of pretending not to understand the request - or reinterpreting it, and then ushered in an avalanche of paragraphs meant to bring Xenos to his knees, culminating in a further trashing of Tillery with a grab bag of stats.

Xenos, somehow able to weather the avalanche , attempted to redirect the conversation back to his original request: that of furnishing some type of proof that Tillery parts his hair on the left side as opposed to the right.

Stay tuned for Chaincrusher's next opening salvo of complete disdain for Xenos' position, followed by 10 meticulously worded paragraphs delineating the epic shadow that Tillery has cast over the entire franchise.:nod:

[Xenos]

For those who have just entered this thread:

Chaincrusher has expressed concern that teams will run on Tillery on passing downs; the inference being that the Chargers should never allow him to enter the game even then.

Xenos, countering, demanded that Chaincrusher furnish proof that teams actually have run successfully on the Chargers, with Tillery in the game,
on passing downs.

Chaincrusher, sensing a trap, pivoted skillfully away, employing his tried and true method of pretending not to understand the request - or reinterpreting it, and then ushered in an avalanche of paragraphs meant to bring Xenos to his knees, culminating in a further trashing of Tillery with a grab bag of stats.

Xenos, somehow able to weather the avalanche , attempted to redirect the conversation back to his original request: that of furnishing some type of proof that Tillery parts his hair on the left side as opposed to the right.

Stay tuned for Chaincrusher's next opening salvo of complete disdain for Xenos' position, followed by 10 meticulously worded paragraphs delineating the epic shadow that Tillery has cast over the entire franchise.:nod:

[BoltBernardo]

Here is my take: I think Tillery will have a sensational year for two reasons:
1) Contract year: With his option not picked up, he is in a contract year. If this does not motivate him, nothing will.
2) Start studded D': With the addition of Mack, Jackson, it will create additional opportunities for other members to shine, Tillery being one of them.