Until John Spanos is Gone, Nothing Will Ever Change - Locked By Fleet - John LIstened

[Bolt4Knob]

Charger Offense 2023: The contract that is troubling me is Keenan's. I am of the belief that we need to get younger, faster, healthier, and CHEAPER at the WR1 position. That moves Keenan to the WR3 slot, Mike Will the WR2, and a new WR in landed in 2023, and Josh Palmer competing for the WR1 spot.

This is my preference over Keenan being either released or traded. But I do not know what Slayer wants.

Keenan Allen is taking a pay cut. If not probably released. His cap number is easier to take this year when released

[Fouts2herbert]

Keenan Allen is taking a pay cut. If not probably released. His cap number is easier to take this year when released

Unfortunately this year has pretty much sealed the deal with keenan, they can’t afford a repeat of this next year on a player that’s scheduled to make 20 mil

here are the different scenarios:

if they cut him before his roster bonus before FA signing period it’s a 7mil dead cap hit with 14.8mil in cap savings

if they trade him before his roster bonus before FA signing period it’s a 5.4mil dead cap and 16.3mil in cap savings

if they wait until after june 1st 2023 new league year it means they paid him the 3.5mil roster bonus then cut him? That sounds very un spanos like thing to do but here is the scenario 4.2mil dead cap and almost 18mil cap savings

if they trade him after june first same deal, it’ll mean they paid the bonus (unlikely IMO) but 2.7mil dead cap and 19mil cap savings

so paying him the bonus in March and then trading him after june 1st gives the team the smallest dead cap and clears the most cap space too

long story short, I don’t think KA has any motivation to take a pay cut with how desperate teams are for WR help, between doing something with KA and restructuring bosa, plus the almost 15mil they stand to have with cap increase, the chargers could have around 45mil in cap space to play with this coming offseason, more than enough to sign all their picks, give herbert his big deal, and extend trey pipkins…

[Boltjolt]

Unfortunately this year has pretty much sealed the deal with keenan, they can’t afford a repeat of this next year on a player that’s scheduled to make 20 mil

here are the different scenarios:

if they cut him before his roster bonus before FA signing period it’s a 7mil dead cap hit with 14.8mil in cap savings

if they trade him before his roster bonus before FA signing period it’s a 5.4mil dead cap and 16.3mil in cap savings

if they wait until after june 1st 2023 new league year it means they paid him the 3.5mil roster bonus then cut him? That sounds very un spanos like thing to do but here is the scenario 4.2mil dead cap and almost 18mil cap savings

if they trade him after june first same deal, it’ll mean they paid the bonus (unlikely IMO) but 2.7mil dead cap and 19mil cap savings

so paying him the bonus in March and then trading him after june 1st gives the team the smallest dead cap and clears the most cap space too

long story short, I don’t think KA has any motivation to take a pay cut with how desperate teams are for WR help, between doing something with KA and restructuring bosa, plus the almost 15mil they stand to have with cap increase, the chargers could have around 45mil in cap space to play with this coming offseason, more than enough to sign all their picks, give herbert his big deal, and extend trey pipkins…

Bosa has been injured way more often than Keenan has and his cap hit next year will be 9-10 million more at 31 mil.
Keenan has been pretty durable the last 5 years.
They need to do something with Joey's contract.

[Fouts2herbert]

Bosa has been injured way more often than Keenan has and his cap hit next year will be 9-10 million more at 31 mil.
Keenan has been pretty durable the last 5 years.
They need to do something with Joey's contract.

I said they’ll restructure his contract, how is that not doing something with joey bosa?

So what do you consider doing something?

If you’re implying that they need to move on from a premier under 30 pass rusher that’s already received most of his money on his deal, please tell me you are not being serious?

[Boltjolt]

I said they’ll restructure his contract, how is that not doing something with joey bosa?

So what do you consider doing something?

If you’re implying that they need to move on from a premier under 30 pass rusher that’s already received most of his money on his deal, please tell me you are not being serious?

Well what you say and what they do are two different things. Dean doesn't have deep pockets like some of these owners so who knows if he can be paying out big bonuses to these guys. We'll see.

He hasnt received most of his money on his deal. He just signed it 2 years ago And has 78 million in guarantees.

And what I'm getting at is Keenan is 30.

He has years left and has been pretty durable till this year. Some of you guys want to get rid of him cuz he cost too much and is "getting old".
Just pointing out that Bosa has been injured a lot more than he has since he has been here. Don't care how old he is. He's been injured more.

[Fouts2herbert]

Well what you say and what they do are two different things. Dean doesn't have deep pockets like some of these owners so who knows if he can be paying out big bonuses to these guys. We'll see.

He hasnt received most of his money on his deal. He just signed it 2 years ago And has 78 million in guarantees.

And what I'm getting at is I can't even is 30. He has years left and has been pretty durable till this year. Are you guys want to get rid of them cuz he cost too much and is getting old. Just pointing out that Bosa has been injured a lot more than he has since he has been here. Don't care how old he is. He's been injured more.

Joey is in the middle of year 3 of a six year extension…

YEAR ONE he got 42million total to sign on the dotted line in year 1 35mil was signing bonus and 7 mil was a roster bonus because they didn’t want to prorate the full 42 million but technically it was a 42 million signing bonus in year 1 (2020)

YEAR TWO he earned another 13.4mil guaranteed last year (year two 2021)

YEAR THREE this year 2022 (year 3) he’s earning another 22mil guaranteed base salary…

YEAR FOUR( 2023) is his last year of guaranteed salary (24 million), years 5 and 6 are not guaranteed but do have roster bonuses of 7mil if he’s kept each of those offseasons…converting his already guaranteed 24 million salary for next year into a signing bonus allows them to spread that cap hit over 2023, 2024, and 2025 which opens up 16 million in cap space next year and doesn’t cost the club a single dime in new money, it’s a no brainer…

So, by the end of this season Joey will have been payed his original 42million signing bonus plus another 35.4million in guaranteed salary which adds up to 77.4million in guaranteed money paid…that leaves 24million guaranteed for next year as his remaining unpaid guaranteed money…

so yes, most of his guaranteed money has already been paid and is being paid this year and he’s still only 27 years old and when healthy one of the best pass rushers in the NFL, he’s not going anywhere…

[Fouts2herbert]

Boltjolt,

barring something unexpected like joey suffering a career ending injury or him deciding to hang up the cleats early (he has had head injury issues), it’s been the Spanos MO to keep a player they commit this type of capital to until the end of his deal and in this case, I believe it’s the right choice…

they might’ve overpaid him to get him to stay with the organization but already his year salary is set to become a typical salary paid to pass rushers of his caliber…They fucking own him thru 2025, if he decides to retire before his deal runs it’s course it would cost him a fortune on money he’s already paid taxes on…

He’s a good kid and he’s a star, a big name, and a fan favorite, whatever you were thinking about moving on from him, I’d let that go because the simple truth is it would take something monumental for the chargers to move on from him, either he demands a trade and the chargers get a shit ton of picks plus the new team eats money on previous bonuses or something crazy like that, the Spanos are going to get their fucking money’s worth, you better believe it…even if joey is limping around headless by year 6, he’ll be on the fucking roster
:LOL:

[Boltjolt]

Boltjolt,

barring something unexpected like joey suffering a career ending injury or him deciding to hang up the cleats early (he has had head injury issues), it’s been the Spanos MO to keep a player they commit this type of capital to until the end of his deal and in this case, I believe it’s the right choice…

they might’ve overpaid him to get him to stay with the organization but already his year salary is set to become a typical salary paid to pass rushers of his caliber…They fucking own him thru 2025, if he decides to retire before his deal runs it’s course it would cost him a fortune on money he’s already paid taxes on…

He’s a good kid and he’s a star, a big name, and a fan favorite, whatever you were thinking about moving on from him, I’d let that go because the simple truth is it would take something monumental for the chargers to move on from him, either he demands a trade and the chargers get a shit ton of picks plus the new team eats money on previous bonuses or something crazy like that, the Spanos are going to get their fucking money’s worth, you better believe it…even if joey is limping around headless by year 6, he’ll be on the fucking roster
:LOL:

I wasn't thinking of moving on from him..I'm responding to some, like you saying Keenan needs to take a cut or be traded because of his 20 mil and being 30.

Fact is he has been more durable than Bosa and and yes,.more productive with a much lower cap hit yet nobody is talking about him being hurt yet Keenan is just slacking and stealing money.

Just ridiculous, Ludacris talk. I don't care how old he is and he is a great player but he's hurt all the time my. Facts are facts.

[Fouts2herbert]

I wasn't thinking of moving on from him..I'm responding to some, like you saying Keenan needs to take a cut or be traded because of his 20 mil and being 30.

Fact is he has been more durable than Bosa and and yes,.more productive with a much lower cap hit yet nobody is talking about him being hurt yet Keenan is just slacking and stealing money.

Just ridiculous, Ludacris talk. I don't care how old he is and he is a great player but he's hurt all the time my. Facts are facts.

so if I’m understanding where you are coming from, you are saying that some bozos calling out keenan is unfair when bosa has been hurt a lot too?

I think I speak for most people when I say we all love Keenan, even those like myself that think his charger tenure might be reaching it’s conclusion…I can’t compare the two guys, joey is still one of the top five pass rushers in the NFL when healthy and finding those guys (at least IMO) is harder and costs more draft capital than finding good WRs, teams are regularly drafting superstar WRs in the 2nd, 3rd, and even later rounds…outside of Max Crosby I can’t think of any other top ten pass rushers that teams have drafted in day 2 and day 3…please remind of who because my mind isn’t as sharp as it used to be, I don’t process information like I used to, Crosby is the only one that comes to mind…

both WR and pass rusher are premium NFL positions but even KA himself was a third round pick…how often will you find joey bosa types in round three? Years ago the chiefs drafted jared allen in round 4 similar to max crosby but that was an NFL generation ago…I can’t think of any other recent guys, they all get drafted in the top ten top 15…

[richpjr]

If I had to guess, I'd guess Keenan is restructured this offseason to convert some of his money to a bonus to lower his cap space. I suspect he is with us for years more.

[Boltjolt]

so if I’m understanding where you are coming from, you are saying that some bozos calling out keenan is unfair when bosa has been hurt a lot too?

I think I speak for most people when I say we all love Keenan, even those like myself that think his charger tenure might be reaching it’s conclusion…I can’t compare the two guys, joey is still one of the top five pass rushers in the NFL when healthy and finding those guys (at least IMO) is harder and costs more draft capital than finding good WRs, teams are regularly drafting superstar WRs in the 2nd, 3rd, and even later rounds…outside of Max Crosby I can’t think of any other top ten pass rushers that teams have drafted in day 2 and day 3…please remind of who because my mind isn’t as sharp as it used to be, I don’t process information like I used to, Crosby is the only one that comes to mind…

both WR and pass rusher are premium NFL positions but even KA himself was a third round pick…how often will you find joey bosa types in round three? Years ago the chiefs drafted jared allen in round 4 similar to max crosby but that was an NFL generation ago…I can’t think of any other recent guys, they all get drafted in the top ten top 15…

I'd say many don't feel that way about Keenan so you shouldn't speak for most people..

Joey is a top pass rusher when healthy. Problem is, he isn't healthy often enough.
So I'll play devil's advocate.

Keenan has been a lot more productive, even counting this year while some are claiming that he is slacking(mind boggling comment) while Joey has played in as many games this season and not a peep on his injury history while costing 28 mil to the cap.

He has had two, or three seasons missing games with concussions while during Joey's tenure, Keenan before this season had the most receptions in a 5 year span in NFL history.

Now this year both are hurt..

Again, I'm not against Joey, great player. But can't help us when always hurt.

Maybe the best move is to get 3 first rounders and 2 second rounders for him? Look what Dallas did getting a similar haul for Hershal Walker.

I don't want to lose Joey but if it comes down to cap space we could get a boatload for him and then draft a ,....or a couple cheaper top pass rushers.

I'd feel better keeping Keenan a few more years and getting big value for Joey if one has to go.
Rather keep the guy who has stayed on the field more.
Joey's cap hit next year is 31 mil (before restructure) and 29 mil in 2024.....while some whining about Keenan's 20 mil. Didn't see anybody complaining about his contact when he was catching 100 balls a year.
Hey players get injured. Joey unfortunately is injured annually.

I don't necessarily feel this way..Joey is a great player but I'm just laying it out there,..... again playing devil's advocate but if we can get ( maybe it's too much) 3 firsts and 2 seconds, would you do it? He is 27 years old and then needs to be resigned again in 2025 or 26.

Then again if Maguire/ the next GM can restructure so he is affordable for the next few seasons, this is moot. He is the biggest cap space eater on the team right now.

Some notable pass rushers to answer your question:

Jared Allen 4th round
Justin Houston 3rd round
Shaq Barrett 5th round
Micheal Strahan 2nd round
Kevin Greene 5th round

Those are some I can think without doing research.
They are out there and those guys were great.

There are others who were good for a time like Akbar Biamila 5th round, Shawn Phillips 4th round. Not a pass rusher per se as a DT but Richard Dent was a 8th round pick (137 career sacks), Clyde Simmons a 9th round pick.

Obviously there's more but I'm not in a research mood.

[jamrock]

Bosa worries me because of the concussions. He had a couple and said that if it continued he’d quit. Luckily he hasn’t had any this year in the 2.5 games he played. But he is often injured so they need to do something. And it’s all foreseeable