Rosen

[Budsman]

The mentality to work on fundamentals (not just throwing mechanics but reading defenses, making good decisions, etc) diet and weight training. I didn't see it at UCLA. Most of the time the guy you see is the guy you're gonna get.

I hear you but Rosen has positives too. Everything I heard about him last year is that he is confident, maybe overly so. He wants to understand things in and out and demands that his oc can explain things through. Sit behind PR for a while and I'm sure he will understand that he's not the alpha dog in that room.

Idk I get that he's got some problems every player does in this league, they grow and work on them and get better over time. If he doesn't then you get rid of him and you don't really lose much. If he hits it's a huge boon.

When I t comes to playing time and paying him I get it. I suspect the coaches will have a really good idea free o long with him under center. It's better than paying a young rookie who you haven't been able to groom under a hall of famer for at worst 3 years on the cheap. It would be an easy transition and the coaches I'm sure would know if he's ready or not. He may actually get a year of play under his belt before then which would be huge.

[Steve]

The mentality to work on fundamentals (not just throwing mechanics but reading defenses, making good decisions, etc) diet and weight training. I didn't see it at UCLA. Most of the time the guy you see is the guy you're gonna get.

I'm not sure how you really know that. That makes him not draftable, not an NFL caliber player. College players don't do a lot of that stuff, because they are still amateurs. They simply have to learn to become pro football players, and those are the things you have to learn to do. If you are right (or KNOW that for any other player) that is a deal breaker in my mind. No point wasting a roster spot on a guy who is not going to do what it takes to play in the NFL (let alone a draft pick). However, I am not sure how you would really KNOWN that.

The decision-making thing I am not sure is something that can be learned. To me, there are a lot of QB who make bad decisions because they are overconfident in their arm, and they will never really learn to overcome that. I may be totally wrong about it, but that is what I think I think. IN baseball, sometimes you see players who love to swing at everything and have no plate discipline, and they may get a little better, but they are basically always going to be that guy.

As far as his play last year, he was late on a lot of throws and made a lot of bad reads, in large part because I think he is looking at the pass rushers, not the receivers. If you look at their stats though, and the other rookie QB, they all did the same thing. Rosen, Josh Allen and Sam Darnold are all about the same player. All of them put up more or less the same stats. It's splitting hairs between them. None of them had a lot of offensive help, and it showed.

[Steve]

I hear you but Rosen has positives too. Everything I heard about him last year is that he is confident, maybe overly so. He wants to understand things in and out and demands that his oc can explain things through. Sit behind PR for a while and I'm sure he will understand that he's not the alpha dog in that room.

Idk I get that he's got some problems every player does in this league, they grow and work on them and get better over time. If he doesn't then you get rid of him and you don't really lose much. If he hits it's a huge boon.

When I t comes to playing time and paying him I get it. I suspect the coaches will have a really good idea free o long with him under center. It's better than paying a young rookie who you haven't been able to groom under a hall of famer for at worst 3 years on the cheap. It would be an easy transition and the coaches I'm sure would know if he's ready or not. He may actually get a year of play under his belt before then which would be huge.

Rosen had a lot of positives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5HxrFrcbsM

He made a lot of good throws in there. When the Cards team made decent play calls, and the rest of his team didn't fuck up, then he made some plays. He made a lot of bad plays, but that is what rookie QB do. Baker Mayfeild played like a rookie early, then played better down the stretch. Jackson has slightly better stats, but the Ravens didn't expose him, and when we did, he did exactly what the other QB did, only maybe worse.
rookie QB stats.png
The one thing I think people are really down on him for, Rosen is very Rivers-ish. Rivers makes plays the way they are designed. You draw it up, he makes the read and makes the play. Rosen is going to be that style of player, if he develops. He is not an Aaron Rodgers type of guy who extends plays and makes them off schedule. Some people really value guys making plays off schedule, some don't. I don't care so much, but I think Cards fans want their guy to make the big plays off schedule. That is not Rosen and if that is what you want, he is not your guy.

I guess the biggest area of disagreement is the value of a 2nd round pick. To me, a 2nd round draft pick is a huge investment in any player. To me you are throwing away a potential starter for someone who might not play. I know he is cheap in the salary cap sense, but he would still cost more than a 2nd round pick would. Either case, the financial part is not the big deal.

It is about the pick. It is a very valuable one, and I am just not sure the risk is low enough to justify the pick.

[jamrock]

I'm not sure how you really know that. That makes him not draftable, not an NFL caliber player. College players don't do a lot of that stuff, because they are still amateurs. They simply have to learn to become pro football players, and those are the things you have to learn to do. If you are right (or KNOW that for any other player) that is a deal breaker in my mind. No point wasting a roster spot on a guy who is not going to do what it takes to play in the NFL (let alone a draft pick). However, I am not sure how you would really KNOWN that.

The decision-making thing I am not sure is something that can be learned. To me, there are a lot of QB who make bad decisions because they are overconfident in their arm, and they will never really learn to overcome that. I may be totally wrong about it, but that is what I think I think. IN baseball, sometimes you see players who love to swing at everything and have no plate discipline, and they may get a little better, but they are basically always going to be that guy.

As far as his play last year, he was late on a lot of throws and made a lot of bad reads, in large part because I think he is looking at the pass rushers, not the receivers. If you look at their stats though, and the other rookie QB, they all did the same thing. Rosen, Josh Allen and Sam Darnold are all about the same player. All of them put up more or less the same stats. It's splitting hairs between them. None of them had a lot of offensive help, and it showed.

Like I said, I didn't see it at UCLA. I could be wrong. Guys are drafted every year who can't make the transition. Do they have the physical gifts? Almost certainly or they wouldn't be drafted after the combines and other measurables. Do they have it between the ears. Impossible to measure usually. Money, living as an adult, all those things make a difference. Adrian Phillips is a good example of a guy who barely has enough physically to be an nfl player but has the mentality to be the best version of himself

[wu-dai clan]

I think it is worth the risk.
A QB is everything.
If enough of Rivers rubs off on Rosen,
we have hit a grand slam.
I see arm talent.
AZ sucked.
Rosen's tennis footwork will come back
with the right setting.

[La Costa Boy]

I just read this whole thread. My head hurts!!! If we do, I see our first for their second and Rosen as the golden ticket. You cannot argue with the 5 year value here but does the talent validate the move? Truthfully if you tell me a draft pick or a trade is a "sure thing" then I'll call you a liar. Take the risk......

[Budsman]

Rosen had a lot of positives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5HxrFrcbsM

He made a lot of good throws in there. When the Cards team made decent play calls, and the rest of his team didn't fuck up, then he made some plays. He made a lot of bad plays, but that is what rookie QB do. Baker Mayfeild played like a rookie early, then played better down the stretch. Jackson has slightly better stats, but the Ravens didn't expose him, and when we did, he did exactly what the other QB did, only maybe worse.
rookie QB stats.png
The one thing I think people are really down on him for, Rosen is very Rivers-ish. Rivers makes plays the way they are designed. You draw it up, he makes the read and makes the play. Rosen is going to be that style of player, if he develops. He is not an Aaron Rodgers type of guy who extends plays and makes them off schedule. Some people really value guys making plays off schedule, some don't. I don't care so much, but I think Cards fans want their guy to make the big plays off schedule. That is not Rosen and if that is what you want, he is not your guy.

I guess the biggest area of disagreement is the value of a 2nd round pick. To me, a 2nd round draft pick is a huge investment in any player. To me you are throwing away a potential starter for someone who might not play. I know he is cheap in the salary cap sense, but he would still cost more than a 2nd round pick would. Either case, the financial part is not the big deal.

It is about the pick. It is a very valuable one, and I am just not sure the risk is low enough to justify the pick.

It hurts just reading the 45 sacks he had, that's 15 more than the next highest player. That's almost a sack more a game. I can imagine that equates to many more hurries and pressures. And he still held his own with mike McCoy calling plays for half the year. I'll buy in on him just for that!

I agree second round picks are valuable no doubt but so are young highbupside QBs that come on the cheap. They don't come around often and when the opportunity knocks you have to be willing to take it.

I dont think there is a player I would rather have left in the draft with our late two, Its almost a high 3.

That being said we could be outbid and if we are then it is what it is. I would think about a package of our first but we would have to get some value back. I don't know if I would do it strait up.

[blueman]

If he goes to NE, and we end up with Whelihan 2.0, I will curse TT evermore.

[richpjr]

If he goes to NE, and we end up with Whelihan 2.0, I will curse TT evermore.

Yeah, but only if he ended up doing anything while at NE.

[richpjr]

I just read this whole thread. My head hurts!!! If we do, I see our first for their second and Rosen as the golden ticket. You cannot argue with the 5 year value here but does the talent validate the move? Truthfully if you tell me a draft pick or a trade is a "sure thing" then I'll call you a liar. Take the risk......

I really find it hard to believe they give us Rosen and their second to move up 5 spots to get our first round pick. That doesn't seem to make any sense from their point of view.

[blueman]

I think there was also a low pick tossed around in?

[La Costa Boy]

I really find it hard to believe they give us Rosen and their second to move up 5 spots to get our first round pick. That doesn't seem to make any sense from their point of view.

It was the best Charger scenario floated here, that's why I called it the Golden Ticket. You don't get a chance at one very often so take advantage. If it plays out that they are offered more by NY or NE then buh bye. For that value I would do it.